695: The Crystal Pepsi of Aqua
09 Jun 2026WWDC 2026 coverage and our first impressions of macOS Golden Gate, iOS 27, and Siri AI.
Episode Description:
- WWDC 2026
- Post-show: Casey’s unexpected afternoon
- Members-only ATP Overtime: The foldable iPhone takes shape
- White foldable phone
- More details
- Sonny Dickson’s images [Alternatively, on Xcancel]
- Case leaks
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Chapters
- Always on vacation in Virginia
- WWDC: Fixing stuff
- Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
- WWDC: Trust & Safety
- Sponsor: Claude
- WWDC: AI
- WWDC: Themes
- Ending theme
- Callsheet is famous
Always on vacation in Virginia
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, it's WBDC Week. This is the most important podcast episode that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we do in the year. This is the one that we get, but usually significantly more downloads
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than average. It's the one where we have the most live listeners. It's the one really where everyone's
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most excited about our show. And it always happens in the same
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one to two week span. It's always the first or second week of June. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it's been that way for, I don't know, 30 years. Casey, when did you schedule
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So as it turns out, I'm not at home right now. I am at the beach. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey first of all, if I sound funny, I am using my normal microphone, my normal preamp, my normal mute switch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am using different XLR cables, if that matters, but I am in a very, very different physical
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Are they oxygen-free cables?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, right. They're gold-plated, Marco, just for you. So if I sound like crap,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is my fault, not Marco's. And we wanted to address that right now. I mean, hopefully I sound normal or normal-ish,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but if it's a little echoey or something like that, or if you hear a child or a dog in the background, I will try to ride the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey aggressively. Seagulls, something like that. But yeah, so I'm in a different spot.
⏹️ ▶️ John That's not what Marco was asking you to address, by the way.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I'm getting there. I'm getting there. So the thing of it was, was that we had thought
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we were going to do another overseas trip this summer. And we thought this in the summer of 25,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we thought, okay, the summer of 26, we're going to go back overseas. And we had planned our vacation schedule
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with the assumption that we would be spending a week or two overseas, probably in July, which is typically when we would come to the beach.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I have a particular beach house that I really like. John can appreciate this.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I got this thought in my mind that if I don't at least book something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the beginning of the summer, it's just going to book up out from under us. And then we won't even have any opportunity to go to my favorite beach house
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at my favorite beach. And so I thought to myself, well, self, Apple always does the first week
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in June. And we're going to talk more about that in two seconds, but Apple always does the first week in June. Of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey course, WWDC will be the first week in June. Even if I were to get an invite, I'll be home
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by that following weekend. No problem. There's no issue with me scheduling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this the second week of June. And honestly, what I'll end up doing is I'm just going to cancel this and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey rebook for later in the summer once we have a little bit clearer plans. Well, I'll give you one guess what didn't
⏹️ ▶️ Casey happen. We didn't rebook for later in the summer. And also, this is Marco's birthday
⏹️ ▶️ Casey week. How many birthdays have I celebrated? How many of your birthdays have I celebrated with you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in WWDC? You would think I would have thought of this, but no, I didn't.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because my birthday is in the second week of June, and I think I've spent at least four of them in WBDC.
⏹️ ▶️ John WWC last year was in the second week of June.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yes, it was.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Failures up and down and sideways.
WWDC: Fixing stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I lost a bet with myself to begin the video. I thought there was going to be some super campy, super
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cringe, like two dads moment where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Turnis and Cook were going to do, you know, the passing of the torch baton, whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that didn't happen at all. Turnis, who? Yeah, exactly.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Who is John Turnis? We don't know.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco He's not here.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the general stagecraft and mood of this video,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think had some interesting changes that I would like to kind of get on, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cover right up front here. Number one, the general
⏹️ ▶️ Marco broad content of the video had very little,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, here's what the new OSs are doing, and here's a feature, and here's a screenshot demo, or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here's something demoing them. Like, it was surprisingly little of that. It was also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprisingly low on the kitsch, with the exception of the Federici intro about the Mac OS name.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We'll get to that. But one thing I noticed that I really liked about these, and we'll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get to this more later, is they included what appeared to be real-time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new AI stuff, even when it was like a little bit slow and you had to wait a second
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there was like some dead air. And they would show it usually with like a split-screen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco view of the presenter on the left and then their hand holding an iPhone on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right. And you would see things happening in real time on that iPhone. It almost felt
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a live performance. Like, I know it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think this bridged that gap better than any of the videos they've ever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco made since the COVID transition into this whole format. Like, what they've done here,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think whether they meant to or not, it brought back a little bit of that humanity.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don't know if that was intentional, and I don't know if they planned to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco continue that or if they just wanted to show like, all right, we got kind of burned last time we showed,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, fake AI stuff. We're going to make sure we really are careful and show real AI stuff this time.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But whatever it was, I liked that change. It felt a little bit more human, even though
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know it was edited. It felt a little bit less perfect. Like you could see if the presenter's
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hand was like slightly moving, you would see that on the split screen.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco One of the presenters, he had an Apple Watch link bracelet and the bottom clasp was all beaten up
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it's a link bracelet that that's what happens when you have one. It's like they didn't give him a brand new one for the shot. It's like that's just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco obviously his watch and it's all beaten up. Like there was little like little displays of imperfection and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco humanity there that I have found lacking in their stuff in a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways for years. And this brought back a little hint of that and I like that a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I definitely
⏹️ ▶️ John sincere Marco's already talking about the overall structure, which is kind of where we start this thing. We can go back to the intro video if you want,
⏹️ ▶️ John Casey, although there wasn't much to it. But that's something that a lot of people have noted and have different
⏹️ ▶️ John ideas about the, you know, the reasoning behind it. The difference this year from many
⏹️ ▶️ John past years is they didn't go through the OSs. So as usual, we're going to go through the keynote in the order
⏹️ ▶️ John that they did it in the keynote. And that usually means, okay, well, what do they talk about first? Okay, first they talk about Mac OS, then
⏹️ ▶️ John they talk about this OS. They just go through it by OS. And they have to always do the dance
⏹️ ▶️ John increasingly in the past several years of being like, well, whatever OS goes first gets to talk about some feature. But
⏹️ ▶️ John of course, we know that feature is going to appear on all the other OSs too. And so when they do the subsequent OSs, they'll say,
⏹️ ▶️ John and of course we have the XYZ feature, which you also saw on Mac OS or whatever. And as they've
⏹️ ▶️ John increased the number of sort of features that are common across all their platforms,
⏹️ ▶️ John that becomes more and more weird because sometimes they don't have time to say like, all right, so is
⏹️ ▶️ John that thing on iPad OS? You talked about it in Mac OS, but now you're talking about iOS and you didn't mention that thing, but
⏹️ ▶️ John you did say it's like on all your platforms. Is it not on iPad OS? And it was always very confusing.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so that's one aspect of it of like not having to do the thing where we, where
⏹️ ▶️ John whichever OS goes first gets to talk about the worst part is they have an OS go second and talk about
⏹️ ▶️ John a feature that was actually in the first OS, but they didn't mention it then. And so they have to like retroactively say, and by the
⏹️ ▶️ John way, even though we finished talking about macOS, this feature is in macOS too, but we didn't want to talk about it until iPad OS. Weird
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff they've been doing for years. So that awkwardness was gone here. And the other thing
⏹️ ▶️ John is, if you have a year, like I think this year, where you don't have
⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of new stuff, if you were to go OS by OS, you'd
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of run out of stuff really fast. Either you'd have to, again, intentionally delay stuff where you're like, okay, I'm not
⏹️ ▶️ John going to talk about this stuff on this OS. I'm going to save it for iOS because that's our big one, even though it's on all the OSs,
⏹️ ▶️ John or you'd talk about everything on the first few OSs and then the last couple of them, you'd be like, they have the stuff the other ones
⏹️ ▶️ John have. And it would be weird. So I can just see them in the meeting going, how are we going to do
⏹️ ▶️ John this? We don't have any hardware, which spoiler, no hardware. And spoiler, I said before, no Turnus. No
⏹️ ▶️ John hardware, no Turnus. They
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco come as a package deal.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So it's just going to be software. And we do have things to talk about, but do we have enough that
⏹️ ▶️ John we really want to go through? It's like the old adage about don't organize your presentation around the org
⏹️ ▶️ John chart of your company. Yeah, your company has a vice president of whatever and a vice president of whatever and a vice president of whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John But when you're telling your story to the public, they don't care what your internal company organization is.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it's not like Apple is exposing its internal organization because their OSs are, in fact, products, like customer-facing products,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? But they are also categorically like if you're Apple, you really care about the different
⏹️ ▶️ John OSs that you have. But if you're a customer, you're like, I just buy Apple stuff and it works together.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so I can't decide whether this is the format they're going to go with entirely moving
⏹️ ▶️ John forward or they're going to revert to ON. We have tons of stuff to talk about. We're going to go OS by OS again.
⏹️ ▶️ John But this year, they did not go OS by OS. They didn't even, they just, they went, well, we'll get
⏹️ ▶️ John to the structure in a second. They went through three weirdly named categories of stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John And each one of those categories, they talked about all their products and all their services and all their OSs
⏹️ ▶️ John that have anything to do with that category of thing. I saw some people think that, say that they
⏹️ ▶️ John thought it was boring to have that structure, but I see the problem it's solving. Kind of like the redesign
⏹️ ▶️ John of system settings in macOS, which I dislike, but I see the problem it's solving and I see the ways
⏹️ ▶️ John that it solved it. And so that's my take on their structure here. I didn't, I see what Mark was saying about the humanity.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like we'll talk about that when we get to the live demo things later, but I did think the,
⏹️ ▶️ John I don't know, the cinematography, the appearance, the editing
⏹️ ▶️ John of this one was a little bit different than past years and maybe a little bit more human.
⏹️ ▶️ John It's still a little bit inhuman. Things look a little bit too perfect, but I do get a little bit of like the
⏹️ ▶️ John people look more like they're in real places. A couple of shots, like I think Josh standing in front of the reflecting pool thing
⏹️ ▶️ John was a little bit overlit, but otherwise, I think it was very polished and it was in, and let's say an
⏹️ ▶️ John innovative structure to fit what they had to say.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I mean, I've been trying to think about this video. And again, I know I'm
⏹️ ▶️ Casey being cagey about it, but my afternoon has been upside down, inside out in a good way, or mostly good ways.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I don't know, I feel like I both loved and hated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this WWDC. Well, I hated it strong, but I really enjoyed it and also left feeling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like okay in that they did the thing that we've
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all, myself included, long asked them to do, which is to say they didn't throw
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a whole pile of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, or at least I don't really view it that way. They
⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn't go in 300 different directions. Most importantly, for my personal preferences, they didn't,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least in the keynote, we'll get to the state of the union maybe another day, but they didn't
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ram AI down our throats. And you can do AI for this because you can.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was very little of that. It was more of what I expect from Apple, what I like from Apple, which is, hey,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are leveraging AI to do the following cool crap on your behalf, which is great.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That's what I want. And so the keynote was, in a way, a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey little bit boring. Like if I think back to prior keynotes, you're getting all these
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann new whiz-bang
⏹️ ▶️ Casey features and all this new stuff that's like brand new and you never even considered and amazing. And I'm fully
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the reality distortion field. And this one, it was like, yeah, okay, so you did all the things you should have done
⏹️ ▶️ Casey 10 years ago, which on the one side, that should be commended because they should have done those things 10 years
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago, five years ago, whatever. But on the other side, afterwards, it was like, okay,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, I'm not sure what to be super duper excited about. You know what I mean? And that's unusual
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me. But broadly, I don't have any specific like complaints about it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I thought the video, to Marco's point, I couldn't agree with Marco more, felt way more human.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think them leaning into these kind of uncomfortable pauses while they're letting Siri
⏹️ ▶️ Casey churn on the things that Siri is churn on, I think that was good. And I would argue necessary
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because that shows us, no, this is really, or it sure seems to indicate anyway, this is really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey happening. These things are really happening on device. This is not a fake. This is not a mock-up. And generally speaking,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like those pauses were way too long, especially for a recorded video. But again, I agree with Marco
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I think that was actually a benefit or a feature rather than a bug. You know what I mean?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, because in many of these areas, Apple has had a credibility problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it was extra important for them to lean into the fact that like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, look, this time, what we are showing off and what we are claiming to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be able to do, this time it works, you know, we swear, pinky promise.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann we actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still don't know if that's true or not. Time will tell. But so far,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like almost everything they demoed today was, you know, at the core level,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was like, well, here's a technology that we've promised in the past could be pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good, and it wasn't. Or we weren't able to deliver what we said we were going to deliver. Or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in some way, there was some kind of disappointment about it. This time they're
⏹️ ▶️ Marco saying we improved lots of things all over the place, which I'm actually very excited
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about, if that is at all true. And so far, it seems pretty credible so far.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we'll see how that goes. But we've improved a bunch of everything all over the place. And also,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all that AI stuff that we've been talking about that we promised two years ago and then kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of just whistled and walked away from, here, some of it is back. We kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of went in a few different directions, but some of it is here. And other stuff got better too. And here's some more
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff you can do and better stuff you can use. And here it is, it works this time. Oh, Siri
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also allegedly works this time. Okay, if that is actually true,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that's huge because that's what we've wanted. We've wanted a Siri that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco works. We've wanted an OS that gets incrementally better. We wanted a new design
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was less crappy than Liquid Glass's first attempt. All of these areas that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we've actually really been wanting and hoping for, they claim to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have delivered on those without adding too many brand new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whiz-bang things that really make for a good keynote. So it kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of seemed like a boring keynote in some ways, but I actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of wanted to reframe it not as boring, but as refreshing. Because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they're actually doing is delivering what we've been wanting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what they've had trouble delivering. So here they're taking another attempt. So far,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks like it's going in the right direction. We'll see how it shakes out throughout the summer and fall.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But this is exactly what I was hoping they would do.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that's really well put. And Kieran Healy in the chat distilled my earlier rambling into
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just perfectly. Kieran said, people say they want a bug fix or snow leopard release, but they get bored when they get one.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that's what I'm like struggling with was like, you know, normally I leave these keynotes just so freaking jazzed.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this time I was like, yeah, okay, cool.
⏹️ ▶️ John you two are giving your final judgments now at the top of the show for some unknown reason, I'll
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey give mine now as well.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Dwayne, John. I'm sorry,
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I'll give mine, which is I was more excited after the end of this keynote than I was last
⏹️ ▶️ John year. Not even a contest. Like this is the most excited I've been about WWC in a long time. Now, part
⏹️ ▶️ John is because they made things terrible. And then when you make things terrible and back it out, like
⏹️ ▶️ John you feel better about it. So it's kind of cheating. I guess I will talk more about that later. But that's how I feel
⏹️ ▶️ John about it. And it's for the reasons you said. Like I'll go into more detail as we get through the event
⏹️ ▶️ John have a lot to go through. But that's my overall impression, which that's just me personally. I can understand why
⏹️ ▶️ John some people might have been disappointed that they didn't go OS by OS. My people were disappointed that they concentrated so much on
⏹️ ▶️ John the things they concentrated on and didn't talk about the things that they wanted to hear about. Why people are disappointed that they weren't
⏹️ ▶️ John dazzled, like Casey said. Show me the cool thing. Show me this amazing thing that I couldn't have ever dreamed
⏹️ ▶️ John of. That wasn't this presentation. And I understand why people feel that way, but I personally was very excited
⏹️ ▶️ John by what I saw. And it gave me good old nostalgic WWDC feelings. But we
⏹️ ▶️ John should actually move on to the presentation. Yes,
⏹️ ▶️ John Just the overall structure, and we'll get to these a piece at a time, was three things, only three, platform
⏹️ ▶️ John improvements, trust and safety, and Apple Intelligence and Siri. When I saw the first one, I'm like, okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John they're going to talk about all their platforms there. Trust and safety, I'm like, what are they going to talk about there? We'll find out. And then obviously
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Intelligence and Siri, we know what they were going to talk about there, and we were not surprised. But first, the crack
⏹️ ▶️ John marketing team appears.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. So first we had the crack marketing team. I've always enjoyed these. Sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it's easier to enjoy than others. This one was a little harder for me to enjoy, but overall, I did still enjoy it. And they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey had a very cute, like, you know, Volkswagen bus animation. Although, interestingly, the original one, not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the new electric version.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, because the new one's massive, I think it wouldn't have worked quite as well.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don't know. But either way, they've concluded on the new name for macOS, which is macOS Golden Gate,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I think is reasonable, and I'm not surprised they used it. I think they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe let this segment go on a touch longer than it really needed to. But overall, I always find these to be kind of silly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and fun. And it brings a little bit of humor and silliness to an otherwise very serious, very buttoned-up
⏹️ ▶️ John I thought it was great when Jaws leans out of the van and says it's Golden Gate. They landed it.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey In the beginning with the
⏹️ ▶️ John animations and the swooping and the silliness, it was very silly, but it was also short. And he just drives by in the bus,
⏹️ ▶️ John leans out the door. It's Golden Gate, man. Sure. Although Golden Gate does sound like a code name rather than a public name,
⏹️ ▶️ John but whatever. You know, it's a California
⏹️ ▶️ John So we continue to rumble on.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So let's start with platform improvements. And this, I don't know if this was literally the first things Craig said, probably not.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But early on, he said the following. And we tried to make this a verbatim quote. We may not have it exactly right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyway, Craig said, our products are an integral part of daily life. So naturally, we all have high
⏹️ ▶️ Casey expectations for them. And we are always challenging ourselves to make our products ever more responsive, ever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey more reliable, even more reliable, excuse me, and that much more delightful to use. So instead of just introducing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a host of new features, we're also taking the features you already rely on and making them even
⏹️ ▶️ Casey better. Because we believe the best operating systems aren't just built on big breakthroughs. They're built on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sweating the details.
⏹️ ▶️ John So if you speak Apple speak, this is where Apple is saying, we're sorry we made a
⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of bad decisions last time and we're going to fix them this time and we're going to regroup and fix a bunch of our crap before we go
⏹️ ▶️ John forward with a bunch of new features. Now, and you're like, how can you read that into that? That's not what they said at
⏹️ ▶️ John all. You have to be able to read between the lines. This is as close as Apple will ever get in the modern era to doing what they
⏹️ ▶️ John used to do occasionally, which was basically say, our last thing sucked. We're sorry. We're fixing it. They don't
⏹️ ▶️ John say that directly anymore. In the Steve Jobs time, they did say that or imply that or, you know, like
⏹️ ▶️ John they were much more blunt. But the modern Tim Cook Apple does not admit fault in that
⏹️ ▶️ John way. This is how they admit fault by saying, we need to slow down. We need to fix
⏹️ ▶️ John our crap. We did some bad things and we're going to regroup. Are they going to say,
⏹️ ▶️ John as we've discussed in past episodes, oh, no new features, Snow Leopard? No. The sentence, the key sentence here
⏹️ ▶️ John is, so instead of just introducing a host of new features, we're
⏹️ ▶️ John also taking the features you already rely on and making them even better. So they're not just introducing new features
⏹️ ▶️ John because they're like, we're, of course, introducing new features. Don't let anyone say that we're not introducing new features. We're
⏹️ ▶️ John introducing new features, but we're not just introducing new features. We're also fixing
⏹️ ▶️ John our crap, taking the features you already rely on and making them even better. That is Apple Marketing Speak
⏹️ ▶️ John for fixing our past mistakes. And they do this every year where they introduce new features and fix past mistakes,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? But they don't always have a paragraph at the front of the keynote,
⏹️ ▶️ John like addressing the audience and saying, you know, they can't all be years where we make a bunch
⏹️ ▶️ John of big new features. Sometimes we have to fix our crap. And that's what they're doing, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know? And the way they spin it is the best operating systems aren't
⏹️ ▶️ John just built on big breakthroughs. They're also about sweating the details. And this is such a positive spin
⏹️ ▶️ John about like we use them so much and we have high expectations for them. We're always challenging ourselves to make them better and
⏹️ ▶️ John more responsive. It's a little bit annoying to hear
⏹️ ▶️ John him dancing around these points in this way, but this is this is the directest app modern Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John will ever get it saying, we're sorry, we did some bad stuff. We're fixing it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Thank you for bearing with us.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And this began with Subhum Kedia, I think. Anyway, the director
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of Human Interface saying, we take a bold leap forward and then we continue to iterate,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, then a few other words. Our team really appreciates your feedback.
⏹️ ▶️ John is the same of like, this is their version of saying, hey, remember when we did iOS 7 and everyone hated and we rolled it back? Well, that's
⏹️ ▶️ John just the way things work. And we're out here saying, no, it doesn't have to work that way. You cannot launch something that
⏹️ ▶️ John is horrendously bad and then fix it. You know, we had this past discussion when LiquidGlass came
⏹️ ▶️ John out. Like, sometimes it is good to just be bold with the first version, but there's being bold and there's doing stuff that everybody is telling
⏹️ ▶️ John you is a terrible idea and then saying, you know what? You were right. That was a terrible idea. Let's fix it.
⏹️ ▶️ John So this is an even more direct, you know, addressing LiquidGlass directly and saying,
⏹️ ▶️ John thank you for your feedback. We appreciate your feedback. And, you know, this is just what we always do. We try it and then we listen
⏹️ ▶️ John to your feedback and then we iterate and we're like, we are not entirely happy with this process, but go on.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I noticed like one of the one of the phrases they used was that they were going to, quote, reincorporate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of the cornerstones of Mac design.
⏹️ ▶️ John In other words, we will somehow remember how to make door handles.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah. Car parlance, like
⏹️ ▶️ John things we used to know.
⏹️ ▶️ John We will remember again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And this was, you know, so kicking off the whole like liquid glass, you know, basically 1.1
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of design, I think this is about as much as I would
⏹️ ▶️ Marco expect for a one-year correction. Like I was, obviously, I would like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for it to be even more changed. And what I hope happens, like, you know, you mentioned a minute ago, like with the iOS
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 7 thing, iOS 7 changed a lot during its beta over that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco summer before it was released to the public. Liquid Glass didn't. Liquid Glass
⏹️ ▶️ John hardly changed at all. Or rather, it hovered around a central point instead of making any progress in any
⏹️ ▶️ John particular direction. Right. And then it ended
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up shipping almost exactly what was in
⏹️ ▶️ John beta one. It was a little bit different, but it didn't like they kept going. What about this way? What about this way? And they ended
⏹️ ▶️ John up really close to where they started.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So what Liquid Glass ended up shipping was very much like the butterfly keyboard gasket.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It's like, okay, well, we didn't really fix any of the really fundamental problems about this. We just put like a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple of band-aids on and shipped it. So what they've done this year so far, it looks like they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have put a few larger bandages on it. One
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the core things that they showed is like, now there's a slider for going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wherever you want in like, you know, you can have it be super clear all the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way to totally frosted. It's like, okay, if your design needs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, it's a bad design. And I'm glad that they gave me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that because I'm going to put it all the way to the right. But I think that that's them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of weaseling out of making a choice. And the right choice is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco frosted, like unquestionably, but they can't quite admit that to themselves
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or they can't quite convince whoever to do it to actually go forward. It solves so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco many of the problems. And that's why they had to add it. And the fact that they had to add it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shows this design does not work universally. And there's a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way to make it work universally. And when you put it all the way to the right, it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still looks like a modern, nice, sleek design. It doesn't turn it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco back to iOS 18. Like it still looks nice and new. It just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco solves a lot of the problems. But they can't yet admit that their
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool concept of blobby glass with refractions and reflections and all these,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they can't quite admit that it's too polarizing and it's
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too whatever the opposite of versatile is. It does not work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well in enough conditions of content to be the default look or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be the universal look of the system theme. They can't bring themselves to say that. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco instead, they not only add, like normally they would have solved this in the past with a checkbox. Now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it's a slider because now they're saying, we really can't decide. We're actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to give all of the control to you, which to a certain kind of nerd, we love
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that control and we want that kind of control. But for Apple to say our system
⏹️ ▶️ Marco design needs this level of user control because we can't make the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco decision for you that's actually universal, that to me says
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that's like that's a weakness of the design. If they have to ship that level
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a control, that's not a good design and that's
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not like a confident design decision.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, I don't disagree with anything you've said, but another way to look at this, and I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don't know if I'm if I believe what I'm about to tell you or not, but another way of looking at it is it's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey flexible. It can flex from, what were the two terms I used, ultra clear to fully tinted.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I tend to think you're probably right, Marco, that really the better answer would have been to put a line in the sand and stick
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with it or change where that line is drawn if it's wrong. But I do think there is something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to commend in the fact that it is flexible enough to be, if you have incredible eyesight and don't
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mind the transparency, you can make it super duper clear. Or if you're anything like us three
⏹️ ▶️ Casey old men, you can make it super duper translucent rather, or tinted, I guess I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey should say, instead.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, see, that's the thing. Like if you're hearing this and think, oh, so you're saying any kind of setting in an interface shows it's
⏹️ ▶️ John a bad interface, that's not what we're getting at at all. And with your point about flexibility, Casey,
⏹️ ▶️ John I would ask flexibility in what metric? Like as in,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, flexibility is where you can adapt to different scenarios. Most of the time, the way Apple handles flexibility
⏹️ ▶️ John is back in the olden days, they would make an OS, they work for most people, and they would have accessibility
⏹️ ▶️ John options that allowed it to be adapted. And that's flexibility. Okay, well, what if I can't
⏹️ ▶️ John see small text? Well, you can make the text bigger. What if I have a problem with motion? It makes me motion sick. Well, you
⏹️ ▶️ John can reduce motion. What if any transparency confuses my vision? You can turn on a reduced
⏹️ ▶️ John transparency, right? But that was the whole idea. Make one that works for most people and then
⏹️ ▶️ John have accessibility options to adjust. This is make one that most people,
⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn't work well for most people. Give them a slider and the slider doesn't
⏹️ ▶️ John slide from works. What does it slide to works for even fewer people versus
⏹️ ▶️ John works for slightly more? No one
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco wants to slide the
⏹️ ▶️ John slider to works for even fewer people. Like that's not flexibility. Like no one needs that degree. Like in
⏹️ ▶️ John the metrics, can you give me a slider that makes the interface worse and harder to use? I mean, on
⏹️ ▶️ John the flip side of that is, well, what if it looks cooler? This is a slider that does make it look more cool or whatever. But,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I don't think that's a, unless you're going to give full themeability to people, which, you know, this
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of did with the themed icons on the iOS home screen and stuff. That slider is not full themeability.
⏹️ ▶️ John It is just this one known problematic aspect of our design
⏹️ ▶️ John that makes it difficult for most people to use. And, you know, it makes the
⏹️ ▶️ John design, it's the opposite of what Art Mark was saying. It makes the design more fragile, makes
⏹️ ▶️ John it not work in a lot of circumstances. We gave you a slider for that. And I feel like the
⏹️ ▶️ John only settings for that slider are default, whatever it ships at, which is what most people are going to use.
⏹️ ▶️ John All the way to the right, which is make it usable by more people. And any other setting is like, why
⏹️ ▶️ John bother? The default is just no one touches it and that is what it is. All the way to the right is as good as you can
⏹️ ▶️ John make it before going to accessibility. And any value between or on the left or right
⏹️ ▶️ John of that is like, what's the point of that? Like, can you even see the visual difference of being 75% to
⏹️ ▶️ John the right or 25% to the left? Like, it's just… It's pretty subtle. And like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, that's the thing. Like, it's, it's not notched. It's just like a fully like fluid,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can set it at 17%.
⏹️ ▶️ John Why? And it's kind of like some of the other settings that I have in the OS, like the key repeat rate and stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ John where the main problem with settings like that is people find that the far right or far left in some cases
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn't go far enough. So they hack, you know, on the Mac, you would hack it with a P-list thing to say, I want the key repeat rate to be even faster. So
⏹️ ▶️ John you just set it to a value because the slider doesn't go that far. So, you know, this is, this is real, a real punt
⏹️ ▶️ John for them because it's not giving you adjustability that expands the range of
⏹️ ▶️ John scenarios where it can work. This slider can reduce the range of scenarios
⏹️ ▶️ John where it works. And when you go to the right, it can expand it. And as far right as it goes, I'd be happy for it to
⏹️ ▶️ John go even farther. So hopefully that slider will be gone at some point. Like they're working toward, I feel like they're working towards
⏹️ ▶️ John getting people acclimated to the idea that you can't see through everything. And again, this goes back to the root idea
⏹️ ▶️ John of seeing stuff through the controls is not a good idea. It is not beneficial in any way except
⏹️ ▶️ John for aesthetically. And that is subjective. Like there's no benefit to being able to see. Like again, they showed
⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, what if you had a horizontal slider in the music app and it slides into the sidebar? You can still see it through the sidebar. Why?
⏹️ ▶️ John Why do I want to see it? I can't read it through the sidebar. I can see that something is back there. Maybe if I memorize the color
⏹️ ▶️ John of the album cover, I might know what album it is. But like, what good does that do me? Like, it doesn't, it's not useful.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that's, and that's for a huge sidebar. Forget about things like toolbars or tiny buttons. You know, showing anything through controls
⏹️ ▶️ John is a bad idea because it makes the controls harder to read and doesn't provide any benefit to the user. And that is the root sin of Liquid
⏹️ ▶️ John Glass. And they haven't actually repented from that entirely, but they have done a bunch of stuff to mitigate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And like some of the things they've done, like they have the, you know, now when you scroll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bar, or when you scroll content under a toolbar or a navigation bar,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I don't know if you've ever used anything before, it's a pretty common pattern. Now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a frosted bar appears behind the bar to visually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco separate it a little bit from the content. Oh my God. I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bar is there all the time, isn't it? No. Not when it's at the very top. Well, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco technically you might not see it, but I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John think it fades off. You have to try it
⏹️ ▶️ John out. But yes, they rediscovered bar. You know what might be a good appearance for a toolbar? A bar.
⏹️ ▶️ John It's right in the name. Like, why did they forget this? Someone loved the idea of things
⏹️ ▶️ John floating on top of content, which again is a bad idea. And so they're walking it back. They went farther
⏹️ ▶️ John than I thought they would do. So first of all, the bar on macOS, that's, you know, it's an actual bar.
⏹️ ▶️ John Now, granted, it's a translucent bar, but you can turn that slider up so it becomes a slightly less translucent bar
⏹️ ▶️ John and a little bit better. And that solves a lot of problems with the interface. And if you, if you, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John actually purposely make the bar, you can choose to make the bar look attractive. Their way of
⏹️ ▶️ John making the bar look attractive is we still have to have the content show through it because in all their demos, some beautiful,
⏹️ ▶️ John colorful image is behind it instead of what's actually going to be behind it, which is something that is not beautifully
⏹️ ▶️ John colorful and consistent across the width of the bar, but is instead like one giant red square from a web
⏹️ ▶️ John page or something. Or
⏹️ ▶️ John your toolbar look insane because it looks normal and then there's a big red blotch and you're like, why is that button red? Oh, it's not
⏹️ ▶️ John red. There's some crap behind it. Like that problem still exists. In their demos, they make it look like a feature,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it's still a bug that the bar is translucent in this way. And I guess you could turn on reduce transparency and turn it off entirely.
⏹️ ▶️ John But hey, the bar at least solves the problem of where does the content end and the bar begin?
⏹️ ▶️ John Now, yeah, again, the content still is technically behind the bar. Someday the bar may turn opaque
⏹️ ▶️ John again and we have sanity restored to our interfaces where there is content and there is controls and they are separated
⏹️ ▶️ John from each other. Imagine that. But until that day, things are getting better. Thumbs up for the bar.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So quickly within macOS, and some of these are also applicable on iPad. Sidebars
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now expand all the way to the leading edge of the window. If you think about it, they were
⏹️ ▶️ Casey inset just a little bit. I don't know.
⏹️ ▶️ John were floating above. Right. For no reason. Sidebars were floating above the content because
⏹️ ▶️ John everything floats above the content. You take content and you just drop crap on top of it. This is my favorite feature of the entire keynote.
⏹️ ▶️ John I could not believe they did this. I hated it so much when they did it. But I'm like, well, they're not going to change that because that's the cornerstone of liquid glass. Terrible
⏹️ ▶️ John idea. I hated it since day one. They actually undid it. Thank God. Then they had to go to the next slide and
⏹️ ▶️ John say, but don't worry. Sidebars are still translucent and then your stuff can, but still, edge, because the margins
⏹️ ▶️ John just ate up space for no reason. They made the window like incoherent, like visual
⏹️ ▶️ John hierarchy-wise, because like the toolbar buttons floating over the content. Okay, they're buttons. They float over.
⏹️ ▶️ John Why is the sidebar floating? Why is it floating inside? It was just, it was so bad. So thank God for that.
⏹️ ▶️ John My favorite feature by far.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And it's funny, like they, they keep, you know, one of the things that's also in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this area too is like they fixed the corner radius of the windows. Now, Mac OS window
⏹️ ▶️ Marco corner radius, like in Tahoe, there was like the default
⏹️ ▶️ Marco system radius. And that's like, you know, new window or new API apps would have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. But then like…
⏹️ ▶️ John no, no. We've said this on the shows many times. People still get confused about it. You know what gave you the really, really big
⏹️ ▶️ John corner radius in Tahoe? Having a toolbar. And yes, being compiled with the new
⏹️ ▶️ John SDK. Having a toolbar. And no one ever guesses that because it doesn't make any sense. Why should the existence
⏹️ ▶️ John of a toolbar in the window determine all four corners of the, but it did. That's how it worked. The big corner radius
⏹️ ▶️ John was any window that had a toolbar and was compiled with the new SDK, right? And it was a liquid glass
⏹️ ▶️ John adopting app that had a toolbar. Apps that had hide show toolbar, hiding the toolbar
⏹️ ▶️ John would change all four corners of the corner radius on the window when
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you hit the toolbar. They would go back
⏹️ ▶️ John to be smaller. And then, and so that's two. That was Tahoe, you know, liquid glass with
⏹️ ▶️ John a toolbar, roundest. Liquid glass without a toolbar, less round. And then there was
⏹️ ▶️ John not liquid glass, the setting that says don't adopt a new appearance or whatever, which was the old default macOS
⏹️ ▶️ John 15 things. You had at least three corner radiuses on Tahoe, and there was a couple more corner radiuses because of
⏹️ ▶️ John like custom windows and stuff. So yes, that's another thing I didn't expect them to do. Not because it's difficult to do. It's very
⏹️ ▶️ John easy to do. I just didn't think they would do it, but they did. And their, you know, applause, I'm sure they got
⏹️ ▶️ John applause in the room feature is just make the corner radius the same at every window in macOS. And also, by the way,
⏹️ ▶️ John make that value be smaller than the stupid Tahoe toolbar one. I still think it's maybe a little bit overrounded because,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, if you're seeing an image, you're missing those little pixels that are on the corner, but thank goodness. Consistency has
⏹️ ▶️ John returned. Sidebars go to the edge. Every window has the same corner radius. That corner radius is smaller.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And it seems, I'm just eyeballing it. I have it on my laptop here. It looks like it now matches
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the corner radius of a Mac laptop screen. So if that's true, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if not, it's very close. But if that's true, that makes some sense.
⏹️ ▶️ John You know what the corner radius does not match? The radius of the toolbar buttons.
⏹️ ▶️ John You're right. Concentricity is dead, baby. It does not. It does not.
⏹️ ▶️ John they did it. Oh, wow. Because that's what when you had a toolbar and like they had the rounded corners
⏹️ ▶️ John of concentricity. It was the whole idea of like, you know, if you draw, you can make a central point and then draw the radius and that will be
⏹️ ▶️ John the edge of the toolbar button. And then you keep going out farther and that is the radius that is the edge of the window. And I think
⏹️ ▶️ John it's fine mostly, but like this is one of the cornerstones of their making everything sort of capsule
⏹️ ▶️ John shaped with like semicircular corners. And to make that look nice, it's like, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John we need to have that radius, you know, as you go farther from the button, the radius of, you know, it needs to match. Concentricity
⏹️ ▶️ John is what they called it, right? And if you have, you know, rectilinear toolbar buttons, you don't
⏹️ ▶️ John have that problem, but they don't. So they kept the lipid glass semicircular end cap
⏹️ ▶️ John toolbar buttons, but they also made every window have the same corner radius on the Mac and that corner radius
⏹️ ▶️ John be smaller, which means that it no longer matches the toolbar radiuses. And so I'm sure Alan Di
⏹️ ▶️ John hates it. And when I look at it, I see it's slightly less harmonious, but I don't care because practically speaking, I want to see more of my
⏹️ ▶️ John content. I don't want 17 different corner radiuses on my windows and my Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, part of any design is you have like the theory,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the principles and the theories that you're trying to achieve. But then at some point, reality has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a conflict with those. Or there's some trade-off you have to make where you have to sacrifice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of the purity of your goals and principles for just pragmatic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons or there's some conflict somewhere that arises.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or you have to think that this goal I was trying to achieve was not a good goal. Well, right. Because the
⏹️ ▶️ John goal of concentricity is it looks nice and it is visual, geometrically pleasing. But what is the
⏹️ ▶️ John purpose of Windows? What is the purpose of a user interface? The purpose of Windows and a user interface
⏹️ ▶️ John is to present content and controls so people can use software. The purpose is not to look amazing
⏹️ ▶️ John in screenshots and for you to be able to draw little circles on stuff and say, look how the corner radius is. It has
⏹️ ▶️ John a job. Design is how it works. And so if you say, like, oh, I have to compromise my design, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John remind me again why you were so dead set on these semicircular end caps on toolbar buttons. They waste space
⏹️ ▶️ John and they don't look good unless you overly round the corners. And so we say, oh, you have to back off from your purity of design.
⏹️ ▶️ John Your design was not to an end that was benefiting the user. It was benefiting you because it made you feel good in
⏹️ ▶️ John screenshots. But that doesn't benefit the user. So thank God they've backed that out. And now they have this awkward design
⏹️ ▶️ John where they kept the toolbar buttons because it's hard to change them that radically. You're not going to make everything square edge at this point.
⏹️ ▶️ John But they fixed the windows. So now they have this hodgepodge where it no longer looks good. We're still wasting a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ John of space in toolbar buttons, but at least they've gone in a pragmatic direction. It seems every change they've made,
⏹️ ▶️ John it seems to me that whoever used to be there, who was not letting them make this obvious change,
⏹️ ▶️ John is now gone or has changed their mind.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, maybe this is a Stephen LeMay thing. Maybe it was getting rid of Alan Diething. Maybe it's somebody else. But whoever,
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it's because one half like now is winning the argument with the court of public opinion, swaying the
⏹️ ▶️ John inside people. Okay, we agree. We were wrong to try that. Let's back it off a little bit. But
⏹️ ▶️ John we still have to wait three or four more years for them to do a new design that is actually both internally harmonious
⏹️ ▶️ John and actually designed well and useful for its purpose.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, what we have here is, you know, on the Mac, what we have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is something that has been edited. Again, it's like a 1.1. It has been tweaked.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The tweaks that they have made are largely good, but the foundations of it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are still weird and not really fitting in the platform as well as they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco could. But that being said, one of the things I noticed, like in the, in my first few minutes of poking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco around on Golden Gate on my laptop, one of the first things I noticed was this new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco button style, like where they, where it's like a little bit like glossier, a little
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more polished, there's a border around some of the buttons. It actually looks
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little bit like they're reinventing Aqua. Like it's a newer, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco planer version of Aqua. It's the Crystal Pepsi version of Aqua. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is getting closer to Aqua. And the buttons that they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have now, the tweak to that is not subtle. You won't, like, if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you out there haven't seen Golden Gate yet, the minute you start using it, you're going to notice, wow,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the buttons are really, like, the toolbar buttons and all the windows really stand out now in a way they didn't
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before. And it almost like it looks a little out of place. It looks kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like, all right, the toolbar buttons before, we wanted to show off our glassiness so well that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we made them too glassy and then nobody could really see anything. Now we, the problem is nobody could see them well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough. So we took our glass and just turned it up. Like we made
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it louder in the interface, like visually louder. And so what we have now is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now the toolbar buttons are like a little bit too, like they stand out a little bit too
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they have a little bit of the specular highlights and stuff. Although Aqua is a great example. Think of it, think of Aqua was so
⏹️ ▶️ John internally consistent. It also, by the way, had buttons that had semicircular end caps, but it was all
⏹️ ▶️ John simulated, static, glossy, looks like a translucent cylinder of
⏹️ ▶️ John blue, you know, clear blue plastic or something or clear blue glass. Nothing behind them ever
⏹️ ▶️ John showed through those buttons. They were 100% opaque. And the corners of the windows in Aqua, tack sharp
⏹️ ▶️ John exact squares on the bottom corner radiuses because the toolbar had corner radiuses because no content
⏹️ ▶️ John was in the title, the title bar rather. The title bar had corner radiuses because no content was in the title bar. Title bars
⏹️ ▶️ John were opaque except for when the window was in the background, in which case they showed through the desktop, not the content behind them.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the bottom corners were squares. So you could see, so the content area had
⏹️ ▶️ John sharp corners. So you could see every pixel of the content in like the preview app or whatever in macOS
⏹️ ▶️ John 10.0. But the buttons had circular end caps on
⏹️ ▶️ John them. How do they make that design work? They did that from day one and they said, this is what it's going to look like. And our buttons are going to look
⏹️ ▶️ John like pieces of glass and our windows are going to have pinstripes and sharp. Like it was such a more coherent,
⏹️ ▶️ John sensible design than the Hodge Podge we have now. And I think what you're noticing, Marco, is like, how do
⏹️ ▶️ John we band-aid these buttons? We still want them to look glassy, but they have to be more opaque and people can't
⏹️ ▶️ John see the edges of them. So let's put a dark outline around them. It's almost like they're taking accessibility options
⏹️ ▶️ John and making the like making them the default because bordered buttons is an accessibility option.
⏹️ ▶️ John And but what you get by default in Golden Gate is like slightly bordered buttons
⏹️ ▶️ John because they were hard to see. And they can't, you know, they can't fix the design entirely because the design of like Aqua,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, had like the buttons stood out so much from the background. These buttons didn't
⏹️ ▶️ John and they had to make them stand out a little bit while still being glassy. Anyway, we'll probably have more to say about this once we start loading the OSS.
⏹️ ▶️ John Marco has used it a little bit. I haven't even loaded it yet because I'm still working on a release on one of my apps and I need to keep this machine
⏹️ ▶️ John on Tahoe, my other dev machine. But yeah, the final thing we'll try to do quickly, icons
⏹️ ▶️ John are off by default in menus. Incredible. Incredible. I'm surprised they walk
⏹️ ▶️ John that back. We've talked about it in past shows. I don't think icons and menus are actually a terrible idea, but their implementation of
⏹️ ▶️ John they've just said, never mind, it's a setting. It is off by default, which doesn't mean there's no icons
⏹️ ▶️ John in menus, but I guess the setting is, hey, if in macOS 15, if there was an icon in the menu,
⏹️ ▶️ John there will still be in this mode. When you turn them on, all the other icons appear. But I feel like this is them
⏹️ ▶️ John basically admitting defeat and saying, developers don't want to add these to the degree they existed
⏹️ ▶️ John in 26. We're going to leave it off by default. And eventually I assume that switch will go away
⏹️ ▶️ John and those icons will just be gone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is it a user setting or is it just a developer API thing where you can say as a developer, this item
⏹️ ▶️ Marco needs a label or an icon? I thought it was a user setting, but I can't find it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was an API set or an API thing, not a setting, but an API
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco thing. It is at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco least also an API thing. The only other thing I'll mention is the so in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this sidebars now on the Mac, they got their accent color back for.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I was going to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bring this up too,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is, first of all, great. You notice it immediately. And yes, it helps a lot because as it turns out,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using multiple factors to distinguish things that matter in a user interface, you know, don't
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just use shapes, use colors also.
⏹️ ▶️ John Imagine if you could have different color icons. Imagine that. We don't have that technology yet. Sorry.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. The more you can, you know, communicate with people with different visual cues, the easier it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is to use these things typically. But the one thing they did, so they obviously also had to solve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the problem of it being difficult to determine what the current selection is. So what they've done is,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because in Alan Dye's design world, contrast is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the enemy. And so what has indicated the selection so far
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been in the extremely light colored sidebar,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the currently selected item has a extremely light colored box
⏹️ ▶️ Marco around it. So what they've done in Golden Gate, it still is a very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco light colored sidebar with a very light colored box around the selected item. But now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the font of the selected item's text is bold. Now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, I see what they're going for. They're going for make it easier to distinguish.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The problem is when text is bold, it gets wider.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so now you have the selected item changing its size as the selection
⏹️ ▶️ Marco changes. This is not the approach. Just have a higher contrast selection
⏹️ ▶️ Marco state. For God's sakes, we've solved this so many times in interfaces.
⏹️ ▶️ John They can't solve everything. Someone's out there saying, but we could do the thing that we know works, but let's think of something
⏹️ ▶️ John else. And they won that argument.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But here's overall, though, with these design tweaks, what I want to see, I mentioned earlier that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iOS 7 changed a lot during its beta period and Liquid
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Glass did not. I'm hoping this year with this new kind of, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco listening to feedback and fixing problems kind of approach and with a lot less Alan Die
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the organization, I'm hoping that this will all be like a little bit tweakable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco during the course of this summer and fall. Hopefully they take feedback. They see that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is a pretty good 1.1, you know, rough draft. I think it can be tweaked to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even better. I think they will hear that from a lot of people. And hopefully this is, again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a rough draft, not their new design team saying, all right, this time we got it 100%
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right and we're not going to change any of this stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John One other quick thing they did is they gave us glass effects in the icons, which is useful, I think, because
⏹️ ▶️ John that's one place you might want the cool effects. The icon composer gives you more previews
⏹️ ▶️ John of how it's going to look in 26 and 27, which is useful because they changed how it looks. And then the final
⏹️ ▶️ John thing is, I don't know what the story on this on iOS is. I haven't installed the betas, but on macOS, as far as I can tell
⏹️ ▶️ John from people screenshotting and reporting on it, in Tahoe, well, on
⏹️ ▶️ John the phone, when you look at like your home screen in iOS 26 and you tilt your phone around, it changes where
⏹️ ▶️ John like the light highlight, like the specular highlight around the edges of the icon is. It changes that as
⏹️ ▶️ John you tilt the phone to try to show it's like glinting off the icons. In macOS, I don't think even on laptops
⏹️ ▶️ John they use it, but on a desktop Mac, the desktop map is not being tilted ideally while you're using it, unless you're on a boat, I guess.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so they had to pick a light direction for the icons in Tahoe, and they picked essentially 45 degrees
⏹️ ▶️ John coming from the upper left going down to the lower right. And so the icons would have a glean on their
⏹️ ▶️ John upper left corner and a little glean on their lower right corner. In 27,
⏹️ ▶️ John they have changed it so there is, so it's from top to bottom. The light hits the top of the icon and puts a little glint on it,
⏹️ ▶️ John and then it also puts a little glint on the bottom edge, which I think looks a little bit less awkward and a little bit nicer.
⏹️ ▶️ John But just FYI, the light has moved.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good to know. All right. So then they talked about how they are optimizing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the parts of the system that make a big difference in the performance of our products. And this includes things that they can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just tweak timing on, like animations, but also they genuinely made things faster.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They said 30% launch improvements on iOS and iPadOS for launching apps because they're
⏹️ ▶️ Casey preloading data. And they didn't say much more than that. They also talked about one of the things that drives
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me freaking crazy, which is when you take a picture and it doesn't get sucked
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into the photo library vortex for like 30 seconds, 60 seconds. So, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you take a picture, you immediately want to send it. Say I immediately want to send it to Aaron or something like that. And I'm
⏹️ ▶️ Casey waiting and waiting and waiting for God freaking knows
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what, but waiting for whatever happened that needs to happen to happen. And they specifically called that out and said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it should be 70% faster. They said a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John bunch of things. And yes, from
⏹️ ▶️ John the camera app, we know you can tap on it in the camera app. The reason I do that is for the reason Casey said is if you don't tap on it when
⏹️ ▶️ John you see it in the camera app, you're going to have to go to the Photos app to find it. And that's where you're going to be waiting.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. They said a whole bunch of other things were faster. We're not going to enumerate them all. They also said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that network transitions are going to be better. So it's more seamless to go from cellular to Wi-Fi
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or vice versa. Also, another change that is so obvious once they made it, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it never occurred to me, instead of getting a like global or maybe not global, but a conversation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey global indicator of sending data in an iMessage, you know, where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the top under the contacts name or whatever, you'll see the little blue bar. Now you'll get a little blue
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bar per message. Imagine that. My mind is blown. You're going to get one per message.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I'm being snarky, but like genuinely, this will be very useful because so often I'll be in like a grocery.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like this only happens in grocery stores. I actually don't go into grocery stores often, but for whatever reason,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the rare occasions I do, I will try to send Aaron a picture of something and be like, hey, is this specifically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you meant? And I'm just waiting. And then I'm, then I will try to describe with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey text what I'm looking at because the picture isn't going through. And then that's held up behind the photo.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it seems like that is all going to get way, way, way better, which I'm super excited about.
⏹️ ▶️ John speaking of scheduling things, you skipped over this before, but because we don't have any deals, but they didn't mention a new, they didn't mention
⏹️ ▶️ John the CPU scheduler and they talked about what devices it's going to run on. And they did not provide any information
⏹️ ▶️ John to really let you know what is different about the scheduler, but they think it's better. So stay tuned for that in future episodes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, who had CPU scheduler on their bingo card for the keynote?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like that's, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John state of the union, maybe. Yeah. So this is the platform improvement section. They did design, which is like, hey, look
⏹️ ▶️ John who glass sucks. We're trying to fix some part of it. And then they do the part that honestly, this should be, and this kind of is,
⏹️ ▶️ John but should really be in every single keynote, or at least every single WWC,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is things that exist, we made them better. And most of the time in the good WWCs, they
⏹️ ▶️ John do this, but this section was just about, oh, there's stuff that exists. Could it be faster?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we think it can. We let people spend the year trying to make a bunch of stuff faster and better. The network transitions
⏹️ ▶️ John is not a speed thing, even though it's listed here. It's like, it's an aspect of your device and it
⏹️ ▶️ John could be better. So we made it better and we'll tell you about it. And they should do that every single year. And I think they do do
⏹️ ▶️ John it every single year. Very often it doesn't make it into the keynote, but I'm glad it got its own section here. And this is the,
⏹️ ▶️ John they kept going. There's more of this stuff. Like the next one was search, which is like, we know our search kind of sucks sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ John and we know users don't understand why. And we're going to say some vague stuff that's saying, we rebuilt
⏹️ ▶️ John the foundation of search. We don't know what that means yet, but all we know is, hey, search has been kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John crappy, like when the spotlight index doesn't update or when the spotlight indexer goes crazy and kills your Mac or when you try to search
⏹️ ▶️ John for something on your phone and it doesn't find it or when it gets corrupted and you have to restore your phone. We don't know the details
⏹️ ▶️ John of what the problem is, but I think everyone has experienced bad search on Apple devices.
⏹️ ▶️ John So them coming in the keynote and saying, we've rebuilt the foundation of search and we've
⏹️ ▶️ John re-architected the search index, cautiously thumbs up because the old one was bad.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I hope the new one is good.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope so. I mean, so I will, you know, so part one of this is,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yes, I believe what they have said in their coded way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was we rebuilt like the whole like MDS worker stat, like the whole like spotlight
⏹️ ▶️ Marco database index thing. Like that has been historically pretty fragile
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you've had to do a lot of really weird things. In fact, just recently, Craig Hockenberry blogged about how if your spotlight
⏹️ ▶️ Marco index gets corrupt on an iOS device, you basically can't rebuild it. You have to restore the phone or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It's a terrible situation to be in and there's like no recovery process.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that's why you can easily Google for like, how do I rebuild the spotlight index from the command line on my Mac? That's easy to find. You know why
⏹️ ▶️ John that's easy to find? Because it's a thing that Mac users occasionally have to do and have since the advent of spotlight. And that's not a reliable
⏹️ ▶️ John system. And that's another example of a system that's like, well, you rolled this out and I'm sure you've changed it over the years, but
⏹️ ▶️ John it's certainly not getting better. And it certainly seems like it's getting worse. Let's just hope this isn't another,
⏹️ ▶️ John was it MDNS responder,
⏹️ ▶️ John The thing where they rewrote a major component of Mac OS and then it worked.
⏹️ ▶️ John It worked so much worse than the old one. They had to roll it back. Let's hope that's not the case here. But on Keynote Day, where I'm willing
⏹️ ▶️ John to believe that the new one is going to be better, and I'm looking forward to it because this is a part of
⏹️ ▶️ John all their platforms that needed to be improved. So thumbs up.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will say, though, the other part of this, though, is so what they said was that when you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first run any new 27 OS, it basically will re-index everything on your computer.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that is so far from what I can tell on my laptop, that is not only true, but also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about an hour after I installed it, I ran out of disk space. Oh, beats. And now, and so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I deleted a couple of, you know, I entered the trash, deleted a couple of quick files that I had time for right before the show.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I have a finder window open. And I have the status bar showing on the
⏹️ ▶️ John just watching the space go down.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I'm just watching it tick down 10 megabytes every few seconds, or 100 megabytes every few seconds.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It's like 52.57 gigs and 52.53 gigs. It's just 52.5.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It's just going down as I'm talking, just watching it fill my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again. So I don't know. I haven't had time to check, but presumably that is the re-indexing process, like slowly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco building up an index somewhere on disk.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or it could be a bug and it's just filling your disk with garbage. But the good
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco news is the SSDs
⏹️ ▶️ John are really cheap right now.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, right, yeah. And it's a good thing they're all upgradable on Apple laptops, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey good point. All right, I'm going to try to pick up the pace and it's not going to work, but I'm going to try. This is, I think, the second
⏹️ ▶️ Casey feature of John's keynote. The more I think about this, actually, this really was your keynote.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you got your liquid glass refinements, which we all knew you would. But now you've got another new feature,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey full res photos in shared albums.
⏹️ ▶️ John miracle. I didn't even know they could, could they do that? Do they have the technology to provide full resolution photos?
⏹️ ▶️ John You would think not, considering shared photo albums were so long ago that the reduced res like made sense from
⏹️ ▶️ John like a bandwidth and like storage space perspective. That was a long time ago.
⏹️ ▶️ John Thank goodness. Full res photos and also Windows and Android people can join in. So you can actually use shared
⏹️ ▶️ John albums to share an album without any of the caveats. The caveats used to be, well, of course, you can't see these unless you have
⏹️ ▶️ John a phone. Although there was a web view, which was crappy and those people didn't feel like they were really participating because they have to go to some crappy web page.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I don't even know if that's still supported. And the other caveat was, but of course you can't actually share photos
⏹️ ▶️ John because what if someone wants that photo? You're like, oh, can you give me that photo? I'll send you the full res version because the shared album ones
⏹️ ▶️ John were reduced res. And I mean, I know most people don't care because little kids take screenshots
⏹️ ▶️ John of photos and that's how they share photos. But like, honestly, it's just, it's embarrassing. Full res photos and shared
⏹️ ▶️ John albums. Thank goodness. Happy about that. Yep, very much so. It's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything's coming up Millhouse. I wanted to quickly mention that they mentioned cycle tracking now has support
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for perimenopause menopause, which is good that they remember that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Everything's coming
⏹️ ▶️ John up me. I'm an old person married to another old
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That's me. There's custom EQ on AirPods. Something for me, actually,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey panoramas on Vision Pro. You can now take a source that is a panorama
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it can be treated as like a spatial scene where they synthesize depth to it, which okay,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine, whatever. But they said you can also use these spatial scenes as
⏹️ ▶️ Casey environments. So if you don't speak Vision Pro, if you recall, you can put yourself
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on like the moon, on Saturn, next to a lake. I forget where the lake is. It doesn't matter.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There's several other places.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 3D desktop wallpaper.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it's like a 3D desktop wallpaper. That's a very good summary. Thank you. Well, now you can use your own
⏹️ ▶️ Casey images as that 3D desktop wallpaper, which is super cool because I've seen some incredible panorama.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I've taken some great panoramas. Heck, I haven't done it yet this trip, but some of my favorite panoramas are from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey here at Cape Charles. So, you know, I could use one of those as my background. I could transport myself back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the beach, which is super cool. I've seen some great ones of like Disney World, for example, if that's your thing, because it is for me.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I think that's really neat.
⏹️ ▶️ John It's a shame. It's a shame, though, by the way, that the spatial scenes that you're taking are not 3D in
⏹️ ▶️ John the same way as the actual environments. Because the actual environments, you can like crane your head over and look on the
⏹️ ▶️ John side of a rock that you couldn't see the side of before, but that's not going to work with the photos you take. But still, like for the purposes
⏹️ ▶️ John of desktop wallpaper, if you want an image that is familiar to you and not one of the ones that Apple makes or that
⏹️ ▶️ John Disney makes or what are the other companies make, it is actually a lot of work to make one of these fully 3D environment
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, super cool. Then, John, you were kind enough to pull a bunch of things from the word
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wall. There's a lot here. Is there anything you want to call out specifically?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, let me just go through them real quick. This is another thing that's my keynote. I'm always looking for photos. One
⏹️ ▶️ John of my big complaints has been, you know, I spend a lot of time in photos on my Mac and the Mac Photos app has had
⏹️ ▶️ John its feature count reduced for many years. Like they just, they took away a whole bunch of features when they synced it with iOS
⏹️ ▶️ John and they just never really reconciled that. Throw the fork away. They didn't take away all the features, but
⏹️ ▶️ John they took away a lot of the features. And when they took them away, I'm like, okay, well, I guess the feature set
⏹️ ▶️ John that's left in Mac Photos, I guess that will be the common feature set across all their platforms eventually. But no,
⏹️ ▶️ John they just never brought stuff from the Mac to the other platforms. And they're things that I use.
⏹️ ▶️ John Star ratings and keywords are two examples. Those exist
⏹️ ▶️ John and you could do them on the Mac, kind of like they exist in like iTunes slash music,
⏹️ ▶️ John but they barely are exposed in the iOS orsia. But anyway, keywords. I put keywords on my photos. I have been
⏹️ ▶️ John for years and years. Those keywords are nowhere to be found on the iPhone. You can't set
⏹️ ▶️ John them on the iPhone. Star rating, same thing. So they added them. This is on their word wall, so I
⏹️ ▶️ John don't know the details of this. And when I say word wall, we really mean a wall of words. This was in this section of the presentation
⏹️ ▶️ John where they're like platform improvements. They said, also all this other stuff. And I screenshotted
⏹️ ▶️ John it and just copied and pasted the text, you know, with the OCR thing and preview.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so this is what I got from it. It says star ratings and photos, add keywords to photos and videos, expire your
⏹️ ▶️ John shared albums, which is a useful feature because sometimes you're done with the vacation. You don't want to be up there anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ John Additional participant permissions and shared albums, which I guess you can say, you can edit photos and you can add photos
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. You can react with emoji and shared albums. I don't know what this one is, but I'm intrigued.
⏹️ ▶️ John Option to prioritize syncing to iCloud photos. Is that where I can say sync this picture
⏹️ ▶️ John now? Faster to start uploading to iCloud photos? That sounds good. FaceTime
⏹️ ▶️ John is going to have dual camera use so you can show your face and the thing that you're looking at at
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the same time. That's what I'm doing.
⏹️ ▶️ John It'll help when I'm trying to debug stuff with my parents. Notes has some new stuff. You can draw
⏹️ ▶️ John in notes in macOS now. Imagine if you could touch your screen and draw. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John section links in notes. Copy and paste as markdown in notes. iPadOS gets iPhone app resizing. We'll
⏹️ ▶️ John talk more about that in a little bit. Hmm, interesting. An optional persistent menu
⏹️ ▶️ John bar on iPad. So you can have the menu bar show all the time. Undo and redo home screen edits in iPadOS.
⏹️ ▶️ John That's nice. I don't know if these are Mac OS or iPadOS because again, it's a word wall and I can't
⏹️ ▶️ John tell, but they say more consistent window positioning persistent across external displays. Those are music to
⏹️ ▶️ John anyone's ears. I don't know what platform they're even talking about. Is it iPad? Is it Mac? But yes, yes. Remember
⏹️ ▶️ John where windows are on my displays. More high resolution, high refresh rate display modes for external displays.
⏹️ ▶️ John Again, is that iPad or Mac? Either way, thumbs up. More distinct active windows. We've
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco rediscovering the
⏹️ ▶️ John technology of being able to tell which window is active by distinguishing it visually. We used to know how to do it,
⏹️ ▶️ John those people left and now we
⏹️ ▶️ John know. Updated menu bar icons. What the hell does that mean? Remove
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey is that too?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey think removing most of them, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John We updated them by
⏹️ ▶️ John removing them. Not in the menus, menu bar icons. Like look in your menu
⏹️ ▶️ John bar right now, the sound icon and like the, you know, like that's
⏹️ ▶️ John mean. Not in menus, menu bar icons. That's got to be what they mean, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Siri icon's different. Yeah. It's that
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Option click to secondary sort. This is just in the word wall, okay? But that's just like
⏹️ ▶️ John for people who are familiar with the old set of table views, you could like click one of the headers to sort and you could click to
⏹️ ▶️ John sort ascending and descending, but then you could option click one of the other headers to do a secondary sort. So
⏹️ ▶️ John you could sort ascending by album title and the option click the next thing by like year or something.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I don't know what that applies to, but I'm excited by it. I don't even know what OS these are.
⏹️ ▶️ John Updated app icons. What apps? Did you change every app icon? But I'm excited by that because I didn't
⏹️ ▶️ John like a lot of the Tahoe icons. So updated app icons. Independent alarm volume. That's kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of like having independent alert volume, but it's cool to be able to control that separately. Again, what OS? I have no idea.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God. I just validated one that's on here. Smoother scrolling in calendar. Nice.
⏹️ ▶️ John true. Oh my God. It
⏹️ ▶️ John scrolls like a normal app now. iPhone mirroring has app resizing,
⏹️ ▶️ John another interesting thing that we'll talk about in a little bit. DRM video support and iPhone mirroring, which is nice. The word wall is huge.
⏹️ ▶️ John We'll put a link to it in the show notes. There's even more stuff there. Those are just the ones that excited me the most.
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WWDC: Trust & Safety
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, then we get to trust and safety. This is helmed by Sambal Desai, who is VP of Health.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They really hammered home a lot that safety features, whatever they're about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be, and we'll talk about it, were based on experts in research. They kept saying over and over again
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that this isn't, or they were hinting and saying in a roundabout way, basically, this isn't Apple just up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and deciding what the best practices are for all these different things. They were going to the American Association
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or Society or whatever it is for pediatrics. They were going to all these other different organizations
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that at least at one point were reputable, who knows now. But they talked a lot about children
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and devices, a lot, a lot. And they talked about how you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey should have a child account for any of your children that you are, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey acting as a parent of.
⏹️ ▶️ John Do you know what that is? Is that an existing thing? Am I just behind the times? I don't know what they were saying.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it's an Apple ID where the birth date is known and known to be that of a child. I think it's as simple as that.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think it's Apple ID, but they also said you can convert existing accounts to child accounts. So
⏹️ ▶️ John it goes with what Casey was saying. It's like, maybe you have an Apple ID for your kid, but it doesn't have a birth date associated with it. So
⏹️ ▶️ John you can quote unquote convert it to a child account by putting a truthful birth date into the
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple ID and then it becomes a child account. Anyway, this section, Trust and Safety, as Casey
⏹️ ▶️ John was saying, basically is about, I'm not going to say child restrictions, but
⏹️ ▶️ John about restrictions on the usage of Apple products. What did
⏹️ ▶️ John they call this when they first rolled, first sort of like started really emphasizing this?
⏹️ ▶️ John digital well-being or something. This is very similar. It does have more of a child focus, but they have essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John overhauled every one of their features that lets you limit how much
⏹️ ▶️ John you or someone else can use Apple's products, like monitoring how much they're using them, limiting
⏹️ ▶️ John how much they're using them. Again, some people use this on themselves. Parents use it on the kids. And as Casey said, they keep
⏹️ ▶️ John referencing these expert organizations, but they also emphasized, I forget the exact quote, but they were like, parents
⏹️ ▶️ John are in the best position to decide what's right for their kids. Even that seemingly,
⏹️ ▶️ John who could possibly disagree with that statement? Unfortunately, it's a complicated world. And there are, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John kids who have parents who do not let them be who they actually are.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so giving them more electronic control over their lives is worse for those kids than when
⏹️ ▶️ John they had more like a,
⏹️ ▶️ John secretly see things on their computer that was in their room without their parents being supervising them or whatever. There is no perfect
⏹️ ▶️ John solution to this, but I think Apple has had tools, digital well-being tools and parental control
⏹️ ▶️ John tools for years. And my complaint about them has always been that they don't really work. Screen time has never
⏹️ ▶️ John worked consistently for me. It has always showed statistics that don't make any sense based on what I know to
⏹️ ▶️ John be true. The screen time statistics would never match from device to device to the same person. So
⏹️ ▶️ John what even is the point? This device says you use this long. This device says you use that long. Like which one is right? We have three
⏹️ ▶️ John devices and three different answers for everything. And also the restrictions were so incredibly easy for kids to get around that
⏹️ ▶️ John it was just terrible. So this entire section of the talk is we have overhauled everything
⏹️ ▶️ John having to do with digital well-being and parental controls. And we've added a ton
⏹️ ▶️ John new features. And like a lot of things we've talked about in the past, I'm saying you needed to fix this.
⏹️ ▶️ John You needed to overhaul it. Fingers crossed that it actually works this time. And if it
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn't work, fingers crossed that you fix it until it does work because they essentially left screen time to rot and it became mostly
⏹️ ▶️ John a joke among kids. So I know there are lots of downsides to this. I know that
⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of kids don't want their parents to have even more control over their electronic lives. But on the flip side, a
⏹️ ▶️ John lot of well-meaning parents do want to have some kind of control and knowledge. They want to be able to give their kid a device
⏹️ ▶️ John at whatever age their friends get it while still having it be locked down or whatever. And the features
⏹️ ▶️ John they showed allow good, conscientious parents to better serve
⏹️ ▶️ John themselves than their kids. They also allow bad parents to be worse parents, unfortunately. And that is
⏹️ ▶️ John the double-edged sword of technology.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think there's also, we can't forget the environment that they are doing this in right now in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the world, in the political and regulatory environment. There is a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco huge number of age verification requirements and regulations
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going into effect all over the world, all over the U.S. They are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well-meaning, although in many ways pretty problematic. I was going to say they are not well-meaning.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, they're almost universally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not well-meaning. I think the people who support them, who hear about it and say, that's a good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea, I think they have well-meaning behind that.
⏹️ ▶️ John The public that supports them usually has good intentions,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco but the people who are
⏹️ ▶️ John proposing the bills absolutely do not. And the reason they're getting voted for is because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the surveillance state,
⏹️ ▶️ John that's what people want. So the people who propose these bills and the politicians who support them have terrible motivations.
⏹️ ▶️ John The citizens who hear about it and say that sounds like a good idea, they're well-meaning. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that's a good way to put it. Because when you hear something like, we need to protect children
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from inappropriate material, it's like, okay, that seems fine. But then once you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get into how and what does that mean?
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, by gathering information about every human on the planet. Does that sound good?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, what if we take a picture of every kid's face and store it in a database?
⏹️ ▶️ John And we want to know who you are and how old you are and your social security number. We're going to store that somewhere and it will never be hacked. Don't worry.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, don't, yeah. We're going to store it. We're going to have, hmm, maybe that's a global identification
⏹️ ▶️ Marco system. Just for verification. Yeah, don't worry. It won't be in an S3 bucket.
⏹️ ▶️ John We just need to know everything about you, and these private companies are going to store it. And don't worry, they'll take care
⏹️ ▶️ John of that data. No problem. They won't sell it to anybody. It will never get hacked. You'll never lose it. It's just a terrible
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what private companies? And what are they getting out of it? And it's just, I mean, the whole thing is such a mess.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then, of course, you go into like, okay, well, in many places, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco content is considered dangerous or illegal that I think maybe you and I might
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not think is dangerous or illegal. Think about places where certain sexualities or gender
⏹️ ▶️ Marco identities are considered illegal still. You know, that's a very big thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still in the world. You know, it's a huge battleground in so many places.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or even just in our country where
⏹️ ▶️ John kid's going to want to learn about themselves, so they can't go to any of those pages because anything having to do with anything that's not
⏹️ ▶️ John heterosexuality is deemed equivalent to porn, which is ridiculous, but
⏹️ ▶️ John that's how these laws are structured.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or gender-affirming care. Like, if you think you're trans and you want to maybe read a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more about that or consider some of those ideas. You're too young to know
⏹️ ▶️ John about that, even though you're living it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it's like we've had throughout our history a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco banned content in various ways, banned books, banned political ideas and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco banned ideologies and concepts. And we as a society are not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good at making good decisions around that and controlling that uniformly. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the political environment that we're operating, getting back to the topic, Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a target on its back, because so does every other major tech gateway company
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that all of these regulators and legislators around the world
⏹️ ▶️ Marco keep saying, well, you created this entire controlled walled
⏹️ ▶️ Marco garden. So that means when we want to dictate what people can do, we just have to go to you. It
⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn't like, you know, if you're trying to block something on the open web, it's much harder. There's a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot more parties involved. It's kind of a game of whack-a-mole. You can't really ever fully get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything. But if you're a tech gatekeeper on a lockdown platform, you can do whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the government forces you to do. So Apple has created this problem and put themselves in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this position, but they also recognize they are in this position. And so now, as all of these laws
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are either threatened to be put in place or actually are enacted around the world, Apple,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, recognized we need to get ahead of this. And because you see what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco happens if Apple, in their gatekeeper position, if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there's a regulatory upswell of some feelings around the world and Apple doesn't
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get ahead of it, you end up with something like the DMA in the European Union, where it's like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay, well, the regulators have decided that your version of lockdown and app store control and fees and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything is anti-competitive. Apple has decided not to even do anything at all about that whatsoever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unless they are absolutely forced to. And so what happens, governments regulate them, and sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they go pretty far in that regulation in ways that might be either impractical, certainly undesirable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for Apple for other reasons other than financial reasons, could hurt the products in various ways.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that same thing could happen with all these age requirement laws everywhere and verification and everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So in this case, this is Apple, I think, trying to get ahead of that instead of what they did with the Appsburg
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rules, which was nothing. Now they're trying to get ahead of it a little bit so that way they can go talk
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the different politicians and legislators that are trying to enforce probably more
⏹️ ▶️ Marco draconian, more ridiculous measures and say, look, we have done all the research. We've
⏹️ ▶️ Marco worked with these different groups and the American Association of Pediatrics and all these different things. We've worked with all these people and created
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this fully safe, proven system that addresses these needs and therefore you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don't have to regulate us any further. That's kind of the move here. So I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think that that's why we're seeing this now. Now, as a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco parent who uses screen time for my kid, all of these improvements to screen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time are certainly welcome because it is a really simplistic and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco limited system. And easy to get around. Yeah, screen time, it's been one of those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple features like I was talking about last week where they kind of like did like an 80% job and then just never touched
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it again, like for years and years and years. So this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice to see. I see why they're doing it now. I think it's a good idea to do it now. And I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco trust Apple to do this kind of thing well if it has to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco done at all. Now, as John was saying a few minutes ago, there is the question of like, well, are there any downsides
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this being done at all? But the world is deciding on its own that they're going to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco force these kind of restrictions on tech platforms. They're going to force this no matter what. So in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that context, I trust Apple to do it better than anyone else and in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a way that considers, you know, things that, things that don't follow the simplistic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco storyline better than anybody else, including things like, what if the parents, you know, what if parents
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are trying to keep down their gay kid? Like that's like there's all those, or, you know, what about like domestic abuse
⏹️ ▶️ Marco situations? Like there's all sorts of situations that like when platforms
⏹️ ▶️ Marco talk about or develop or think about permissions-based systems like this or access
⏹️ ▶️ Marco control systems, there's a lot of those kind of messy realities that they don't consider.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then that becomes a bad scene for a lot of people. Apple historically has been
⏹️ ▶️ Marco much better than everyone else at handling that kind of breadth of concepts,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco considering all of these different cases and doing the best they can with them.
⏹️ ▶️ John Assuming it works, again, that's always the caveat. Although I will say, I don't think in this case, this is going to save Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ John Unlike the DMA stuff, the DMA is trying to make them do a thing
⏹️ ▶️ John that would be beneficial to everybody. Now the laws are trying to make Apple do a thing that is not beneficial
⏹️ ▶️ John to anybody except for, again, the surveillance state and people who want to own this data. And to give an example of that, and
⏹️ ▶️ John all these laws that are being passed that Apple doesn't like, they're going to say, well, it's well and good that you did all that,
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple. But you know, you just ask people to enter their ages. Like you ask parents to enter their kids' ages.
⏹️ ▶️ John You ask people to voluntarily enter their ages. What's stopping them from just lying about their age? Because that's whenever
⏹️ ▶️ John you hear age verification stuff, well, shouldn't we, you know, like kids shouldn't be able to see things they shouldn't see? So if, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John but like, well, what did they lie about their age? That's where we get into the whole gathering your identity because
⏹️ ▶️ John they can't just say, hey, please enter your age here. Like, no, no, no. You have to prove that
⏹️ ▶️ John you're 18 years old or 19 years old or 20 years old. You can't just say it because what's the point in adding a dialogue
⏹️ ▶️ John box? It says, type your age here. Okay, 57, boom. And like anybody can type a number.
⏹️ ▶️ John They need to get your identity. They need to know who you are. You need to prove who
⏹️ ▶️ John you are. So what do we gather for that? A government ID, a picture of you, your birth certificate,
⏹️ ▶️ John your social security number. You know, like go through a verification agency that will gather all your biometric data
⏹️ ▶️ John and vouch for you. That's where this becomes a problem. Apple is doing none of that. When
⏹️ ▶️ John you create a child account, an adult just enters. I have a kid. This is their birthday. That's them. You can type anything
⏹️ ▶️ John you want there. I have fake children Apple IDs right now for kids that don't exist for the purposes of testing.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nothing is like, that was Apple's whole big point here. We consulted with experts and we're putting it in
⏹️ ▶️ John the hands of the parents. And the government's saying, no, no, no. The laws we want to pass say, you can't do any of
⏹️ ▶️ John that because then anyone can enter anything they want. And Apple's like, we trust parents. We trust our users.
⏹️ ▶️ John That's the way we want to do it. And these laws are like, you can't trust parents. You can't trust users. You certainly
⏹️ ▶️ John can't trust kids. You know what you can trust? Palantir. Right, exactly. And so that's
⏹️ ▶️ John the bind we're in. So I feel for Apple here. I agree that they're trying to do what they're trying to
⏹️ ▶️ John do is, in general, a good idea. It does have some scary downsides, but the
⏹️ ▶️ John much scarier thing are the laws that are being, and I'm just talking about U.S. laws. The laws in other countries where people can
⏹️ ▶️ John be executed for being gay is like, that's a whole other ball of box. Even just in the U.S., depending on
⏹️ ▶️ John what state you're in, things are already pretty grim. So it's, I think it is interesting that one, fully
⏹️ ▶️ John one-third topic-wise, of the keynote was on the topic of trust and safety. And it was essentially all
⏹️ ▶️ John about digital well-being and parental controls. And again, it all looks good
⏹️ ▶️ John and it's a vast improvement what came before. I hope they did a good job implementing it, but I fear that
⏹️ ▶️ John it's not going to be enough.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I mean, everything you guys said is exactly right. It was interesting watching this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me because as Declan's, as Declan's fifth grade
⏹️ ▶️ Casey graduation kind of present and in some ways, in many ways, as a self-serving thing, we got him an
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Watch SE. This is his first like real honest to goodness device.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. And I know that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John We'll run the new Watch OS. Yeah, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly. But anyways, but so we've been, he had, he was using a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone that does not have service. You know, it's effectively an iPod Touch at this point as
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a noise maker in his room, like just to do like white noise in the background while he sleeps.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so we had done a little bit of screen time on that, like screen time related settings on that to make sure he's not, you know, fussing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with that during times he shouldn't be. But now he has a device that, you know, is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey places other than his bedroom. And so we had to take a much closer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey look at screen time. And I can tell you, it's not very clear or easy to set
⏹️ ▶️ Casey up. It's unclear how they really expect things to happen. Like none of it is very well done.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they went through in the keynote, you know, what, who, when, and how with regard to kid related things.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So what content can kids see? One of the big things they announced is ask to browse for websites.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So in the same way that you have, you know, may I download this app, please? You can have may I go
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to this website. And apparently this is turned on by default for kids under 13 years old. They have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey who you can talk to. And this is something that we were running into with Declan because we don't personally, for us,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we don't currently want him to have unfettered access to any contact
⏹️ ▶️ Casey under the sun. We would like to be able to vet the people that he's putting in his watch to send text
⏹️ ▶️ Casey messages with. And as he gets older, we'll probably stop doing that. But for today, we would like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so that's kind of very kludgy in screen time settings right now. And now there's also a ask
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for permission to connect, which is really great because that'll make those sorts of things much, much easier.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They also kind of flipped on its head, or maybe not flipped on its head, but took a different approach to screen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey time scheduling. So, you know, we could say you can't use your device after,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, 7 or 7.30 at night or what have you. Well, now, well, that is still true, but now you can also
⏹️ ▶️ Casey say, well, you know, any app in the realm of games,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can have 30 minutes a day, an hour a day, two hours a day, et cetera. So they're doing time allowances.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is when kids can have access. They do time allowances rather than a specific schedule. And I think some of this was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey already available, but it was an app-by-app basis. And now you can do it in like a group basis. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that that's very clever as well. And then how parents can guide kids. They said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the words, we've completely redesigned screen time. You can pause device use entirely.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can also allow unlimited use. So there's a very easy button right at the top or three, a trio of buttons.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pause, allow unlimited, and change schedule because another thing you can do is get more robust scheduling. So school
⏹️ ▶️ Casey days are these rules, weekends are these rules. They also talked about how there's a bunch of APIs available for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey developers as well to leverage with this. They did also mention that there's a setup assistant, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is basically a Windows wizard, which I chortled about because it's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very clunky, but also the way you set it up right now is even clunkier. So I'm actually kind of excited
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about that. And there's also going to be a new child safety website, which they mentioned as well. So that's pretty cool.
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WWDC: AI
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then we get to, I think, the final of the triumvirate, if I'm not mistaken, which is Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Intelligence and Siri. And one of the things that was said verbatim, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey believe, is some seem to be pursuing AI for the sake of AI. And I think that is extremely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well said. As I said, I believe in the top of the show, I am very enthusiastic at this point
⏹️ ▶️ Casey before we get to the State of the Union, where Apple seems to be taking what I consider to be a much more
⏹️ ▶️ Casey apple-y and much more effective approach to AI, which is what are the ends
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we're trying to do? And are those ends able
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be met by some of these new technologies? So they have a bold new architecture
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Apple Intelligence in Siri centered around you and the Apple products you use every day. Again, so far
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so good. Then they started talking about Apple Foundation models. Craig said, again, either verbatim or close to, this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey year we embarked on a deep collaboration with Google, leveraging the technologies behind their Gemini family of models. Together,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we created the next generation of Apple Foundation models for our integrated Apple intelligence experiences and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey adapted these new models to run on device and on servers using private cloud compute.
⏹️ ▶️ John So if you're wondering if Google was going to get a mention of Gemini, not only did they get a mention, they got a very generous
⏹️ ▶️ John on the Apple scale things mentioned. Together we created a collaboration between
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple and Google. They named Google. They named Gemini. They attributed this product to
⏹️ ▶️ John a collaboration, a deep collaboration with Google. I don't think that was contractually
⏹️ ▶️ John obligated. It sounded like they wanted to say this. Some people were cynically saying, well, now when it goes wrong, they
⏹️ ▶️ John can just blame Google for when Siri tells you to put glue on pizza or whatever. But,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I could have gone either way on this. A lot of thought went before this keynote. It was like, will they even mention Google
⏹️ ▶️ John at all? Will they just say it's Apple Intelligence? Again, there was that quote-unquote joint press release many months
⏹️ ▶️ John ago that was only released by Google. I mean, obviously it had Apple's blessing because it talked about Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John in it, but that made me think like, oh, they're not going to mention Google at all, but like, how could they avoid it? And they didn't.
⏹️ ▶️ John It is a deep collaboration with Google. We'll see how long this deep collaboration lasts. Again, they previously had
⏹️ ▶️ John a pretty deep collaboration in 2024 with OpenAI, and that one doesn't seem to be going as well. So,
⏹️ ▶️ John but anyway, for now, Google helped us fix our crap. Yep. Good. Hope we hope.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. So there's going to be new more powerful on-device model or models.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Higher accuracy dictation. Heck yes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Better
⏹️ ▶️ Casey natural language understanding. Heck yes. A new system orchestrator. Personal
⏹️ ▶️ Casey context understanding. They said that behind the scenes, Apple Intelligence used a spotlight
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and all of us went,
⏹️ ▶️ John the good one, the new one, not the old one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This time it works, we swear.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we'll see. We shall see about this. Speaking of the new Siri, by the way, there is a waiting list in the beta.
⏹️ ▶️ John So if you install the beta, it says, oh, you want to use the new Siri? Join the waiting list. I mean, obviously it's the first beta and
⏹️ ▶️ John they're still rolling things out. But just FYI, if you're rushing to install the beta so you can try the new Siri, you're going to be on the waiting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But at least you'll be close to the top, I guess. Oh, and actually, can we pause right now? We do this every
⏹️ ▶️ Casey year. I'm going to do it again. I should have done this at the top of the show, but I'm going to do it now.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pull over, order your t-shirts. Pull over to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ATP.fm slash store.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, no, don't buy those. They'ren't the good ones.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. For the love of God, do not put betas on any device
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you care about. Marco,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I believe you said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you were doing it on an alternate device, if I'm not mistaken.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have it on my laptop, and I actually just ordered a refurbished iPhone Air
⏹️ ▶️ Marco run the new models, like the high-end models. I want to test all my transcription stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with them. And the only iPhone that I own that can run the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big new models is my personal iPhone 17 Pro because it can only run on the 17
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I didn't realize that. Okay.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And we should just list the other devices while we're talking about this. The new, more powerful on-device models
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone Air, iPhone 17 Pro, iPad with M4 and later.
⏹️ ▶️ John So that's not a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Just the latest Air and the Pro, right? Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John And a Mac with M3 and later, and you need at least 12 gigs of RAM.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey made it in on my M3 Macs.
⏹️ ▶️ John So if you have an 8 gig Mac, that's not going to save you. M3 and later, yeah. So I
⏹️ ▶️ John mean, I'm assuming if you have a machine that is older than that, you'll just get the older existing on-device models.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, based on what they were saying, it sounds like there's actually two new model classes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It sounds like they made the foundation models better for all devices that could run them before, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it's like iPhone 15 Pro. So it's all devices that can run Apple intelligence models locally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before. I think those are getting new models. But then also there's an even larger,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more sophisticated set of local models that these higher end or newer devices are getting.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And if you know the Gemini product lines, you can probably guess which Gemini models are like
⏹️ ▶️ John replaced Apple's old foundation models and which Gemini models are their new, more powerful ones. I'm
⏹️ ▶️ John sure Apple has tweaked them in whatever ways they want. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Regardless, they also said that there is going to be broad world knowledge, including
⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to the web. You can do app actions, which I don't remember them ever having referred to it that way before, but maybe I'm
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrong. Also on-screen awareness. And at this point, they trot out Mike Rockwell, the fixer who
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is allegedly going to fix new Siri and fix Siri to make New Siri. And let me tell
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you, if you are to believe the keynote, and we are recording this hours after the keynote, we're recording
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it on Keynote Monday. We've barely had time to do, well, John and I haven't had time to put any betas
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anywhere. Marco has barely had any time to put betas anywhere. Oh, and that's why I don't think I ever closed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the loop on that. Don't put the beta on any device. I think I briefly said that, but don't do it.
⏹️ ▶️ John That you care about it. Not the first beta anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, definitely not the first beta.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe wait for the public beta.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly right. But anyway, we at this point, we are in full,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it's all going to be great, man. That's where we are right now. So just take this all with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey copious amounts of salt.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so this thing they had here was, as Marco said, it's a dual shot. It's a split screen. On the left is Mike Rockwell
⏹️ ▶️ John holding his phone and you can see him from the waist up. And on the right is a hand holding an iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it's very clear from the second they start doing this demo, that's his hand. What you see on the
⏹️ ▶️ John left, the shot on the right is a close-up of the hand that you see on the left. You know that because
⏹️ ▶️ John when his finger twitches on the left, the finger twitches on the right. Like these are live, synced in
⏹️ ▶️ John time, real-time shots. Now, first of all, setting aside what we're going to talk about in a second, which is the convincing everybody this is
⏹️ ▶️ John not fake. Look at the angle he's, I should put a free frame of this, but if not, go to the thing. Look at the
⏹️ ▶️ John angle he's holding his phone. He's looking at his phone screen. He's holding it so that it is facing
⏹️ ▶️ John him. And I'm like, where is the camera that is shooting?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like you can see just out of frame. I'm sure maybe they CD'd part of it out, but just out of frame, there is a
⏹️ ▶️ John huge camera and lighting rig pointed over his shoulder at the phone to get
⏹️ ▶️ John what I think is an amazing shot of a real iPhone where you can read the screen
⏹️ ▶️ John where it doesn't look like the phone is not pointed at the camera. I just, the staging of this,
⏹️ ▶️ John and I probably, they probably had him practice, hold your hand exactly here and exactly,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because it doesn't,
⏹️ ▶️ John you could have him hold it like, oh, he's clearly holding his phone so it's pointing towards the camera. He doesn't even look like he's using it. No,
⏹️ ▶️ John he looks like he's using his phone and yet they're still managing to get a shot. So A plus for whoever set
⏹️ ▶️ John up this shot just on the like the logistics and the quality of
⏹️ ▶️ John the appearance. Now, Mike Rockwell is a human being and I guess they didn't want to do too many takes of this
⏹️ ▶️ John and he speaks with his hands. So occasionally you'll see his other hand fly up into the frame on the right side,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is another really human moment of just like, they probably told him not to do that, but he gets excited
⏹️ ▶️ John appears in frame. It is very human and very straightforward. Again, kind of like when Steve Jobs would have
⏹️ ▶️ John like the overhead projector camera pointing down at his phone that would be attached with a tether so it could show on the big screen.
⏹️ ▶️ John And he'd, you know, it kind of reminds me of that. But kudos to him to doing that. And then finally, as
⏹️ ▶️ John we discussed at length already, they needed to do this to show you this is not fake. This is a
⏹️ ▶️ John real phone. We never cut away. It's a continue. It's a wonder. It's a, you know, I mean, they do have cuts, but like
⏹️ ▶️ John when he's interacting with the phone, this is it. This is software. It is running on a phone. He's talking to
⏹️ ▶️ John it. We are all to assume that this is not like a canned demo where it's just like a movie playing and he's pretending he's
⏹️ ▶️ John using it. And we are convinced of that by the fact that sometimes you have to wait an uncomfortable period of time for the
⏹️ ▶️ John new series to do anything. And we just see the little spinner and we go, uh-huh. I guess is it
⏹️ ▶️ John going to do something? And he just stands there. And again, this is a two-shop. They never cut away. He's there. And he just has to sit there
⏹️ ▶️ John silently waiting for the phone to do. And then the screen comes up and then he says
⏹️ ▶️ John his prepared statement. Oh, now it has told me blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this was simultaneously both
⏹️ ▶️ John the most uncomfortable section of the keynote and also, I feel like, potentially
⏹️ ▶️ John the most triumphant. I think I posted on Mastodon that this is Mike Rockwell either taking his victory lap,
⏹️ ▶️ John you brought me in to fix Siri, I done fixed it. Or it's him
⏹️ ▶️ John going out there and saying, now it's my neck on the line. If this crap doesn't work, you're going to blame me.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Because I'm, you know, it's like,
⏹️ ▶️ John if you're going to fix Siri, you got to go out there and show it working. And you know how you have to show it working? A continuous shot
⏹️ ▶️ John of the phone in your hand and you use it. And that's the only convincer. It's like, we can't ship this
⏹️ ▶️ John unless this works. And it's not, it shouldn't be such a high bar because it's like, well, of course you can't ship something unless
⏹️ ▶️ John it works, right? But in this post-WWC 2024 world,
⏹️ ▶️ John there's such skepticism about Apple ever getting this to work. They need to do everything they possibly
⏹️ ▶️ John can to say, we swear. We swear it will work this time. And I'm still not, I'm actually still
⏹️ ▶️ John not convinced because I haven't used it myself. But they did everything they could. So kudos to Mike Rockwell.
⏹️ ▶️ John Extra kudos to the people who set up this shot.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And actually, a friend of mine, Rob Ryan, tweeted at Craig Hockenberry,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey another friend of ours, that, and this is with regard to later in the keynote, but I presume it's applicable here too.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Rob said, Justin's demos were all one large take. Imagine how many times he flubbed and had to reshoot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the demo. So I would assume that's true as well for Rockwell. Again, I don't know this,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but that is intense. And I am impressed. And like we've all three of us at some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey point during this episode have said, I think this is exactly what they needed to do to instill some amount of confidence that this is not
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And they showed the new look of Siri, which German's like mock-ups, artist mock-ups were actually pretty accurate. One
⏹️ ▶️ John of the things I noted every time they showed the thing, especially on Mike Rockwell's particular phone that he's demoing
⏹️ ▶️ John on, when the big, like Dynamic Island expands into this large liquid glassy
⏹️ ▶️ John blob where Siri does stuff with like an animation. And it's very clear.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like I don't think the slider affects that. Like it's very, it's very translucent. It's very transparent. It looks glassy
⏹️ ▶️ John and it refracts what's behind it. And what's usually behind it are the top corners of some icons
⏹️ ▶️ John on the home screen. If you're doing it on the home screen, he's got widgets. He's got like the weather widget in the calendar at the top of the screen.
⏹️ ▶️ John And if you can look at the screenshot in my, in the show notes here, I don't have the image of this for us to put in
⏹️ ▶️ John the document, but if you just watch the video, you can see it. Do you see the little the two little holes, the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco little refracty
⏹️ ▶️ John holes that it's making in the bottom of the lozenge? Do you see that in the notes? Yep. What is that thing that we
⏹️ ▶️ John knew the name of when the 2019 Mac Pro came out? The thing that makes people
⏹️ ▶️ John feel queasy when they see things with lots of holes in it?
⏹️ ▶️ John It's giving me that. And it's not just this. There was a couple other screenshots that did the same thing. Because it
⏹️ ▶️ John is so refracty and clear, it adds these artifacts that either look like it
⏹️ ▶️ John has these weird sort of rotted holes in it, or it looks like an alien head or whatever. Yet
⏹️ ▶️ John another place where the idea that interface elements should be glassy and refract the things behind them
⏹️ ▶️ John is not a great idea. Even when the interface element, the whole point of it is just to be the spinny ethereal rainbow-colored
⏹️ ▶️ John blob. I think that's ugly. And I hope they fix that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know what it gives to me is Flight of the Navigator. I don't know why, but it's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me of the spaceship from Flight of the Navigator for whatever reason. Anyways, so yeah, so Mike Rockwell is doing his victory
⏹️ ▶️ Casey lap. They're now calling it Siri AI, which is Siri plus Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Intelligence. Mike said specifically, we know there are times you expect more from Siri.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, no sherlock. Did you think so?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco The understatement of the century.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey In any case, they talk about a whole bunch of stuff. I'm going to try to blast through this real fast, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they said it's a more capable assistant and they go through like an exchange
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where, you know, where's Jeff's new place? Show me photos
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from near there. That's not exactly right, but you get the idea. They also talked about how the voice
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is much better and more expressive. Additionally, there's sliders like Carrot Weather Style
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where you can change not only the pace of the voice, so you can crank it super fast if you're like, if you're a sicko like me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and listen to podcasts at nearly 2x, or you can slow it way down. You can also crank up or down the
⏹️ ▶️ John I so wanted to turn the expressibility to max because I want to say, how far does that go? Because it
⏹️ ▶️ John pretty expressive, the one where it's like, I'm so excited to read this sentence because I think it should be read and excited. But
⏹️ ▶️ John they never moved the expressibility. They just changed the speed slider. I'm like, put that expressivity to the max.
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to hear it. This
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John is like, yeah, that's cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like new ways to prank your friends. Like, go change that setting on their phone.
⏹️ ▶️ John Put it on slowest speed, highest expressivity.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they said it's more conversational. And they talked here about how you can swipe down from the dynamic island
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to search on iOS and search and spotlight and Siri are all kind of one conflated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing now. They use the example, which is really bold. They use the example of what's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the schedule for the upcoming weekend of the World Cup, which is the sort of thing that Siri of your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey would absolutely just crap the bed on. Anything sports related, it's always wrong. It's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey showing you Super Bowl results from 30 years ago, whatever the case may be. Things that seem so eminently
⏹️ ▶️ Casey obvious. You know, like, when is the football game today? Asks an American. And Siri's like, oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, some British team is playing some other British team in three days or whatever. It's just preposterous.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then they have a whole conversation about how I want to plan a watch party for Brazil, Morocco, and they go back and forth.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this looks pretty good. Like, if we're to take on at face value
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that this is how this works, I'm not sure I would use Siri to help me plan a party.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But the fact that it is capable of doing that, here is, I guess, actually to argue with myself, this is one of those occasions
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where it's like, we don't really need AI for this. Like I'm not looking to plan a party with AI,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I am happy to know that it's possible.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, setting aside whether you want to do it or not, these demos, I mean, these demos are just demonstrating,
⏹️ ▶️ John look, it doesn't suck so bad anymore. I can understand what we're saying. But they always ended at least one step short
⏹️ ▶️ John of something that I think humans would actually want to do is they would be like, find the photos from last weekend,
⏹️ ▶️ John send some of these, send only the photos with these people in them to this group chat and blah, blah, blah. And that's
⏹️ ▶️ John just essentially demonstrating Siri's LLM power now. It understands what I'm saying. It no longer embarrassingly
⏹️ ▶️ John gets wrong everything about what I'm trying to say. It demonstrates, the demo shows it understands
⏹️ ▶️ John me. It knows what I'm asking. And then it tries to do it. But the place where it falls down and the reason, to
⏹️ ▶️ John your point, Casey, why people probably won't use Siri to do these types of things, setting aside that they don't trust it because they think
⏹️ ▶️ John it sucks, is that they get to the point where it's like, okay, show me the photos from this weekend, send
⏹️ ▶️ John the ones of my kids. Everyone wants to pick the specific photos. They don't, they're not going
⏹️ ▶️ John to say, but they show like
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco two photos in
⏹️ ▶️ John the thumbnails and they're like, I think it said like 37 photos. And he's like, great, send. No, you're going to want to see,
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe you don't want to send 30. You're going to want to pick the five that you want. Like human interaction has to happen or the thing of
⏹️ ▶️ John like, I'm putting together this plan. Does this look okay? And you're like, show me the part where you say, actually,
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to edit that. Launch me into a text editor with this thing. Show me this as a file. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John the final mile, the last mile of like human interaction is either
⏹️ ▶️ John required or desired in many steps in this process. If you're
⏹️ ▶️ John just talking back and forth with the agent and you're like, I'm fine with whatever you do, then your friends are going to
⏹️ ▶️ John complain. Stop using that stupid AI thing to put stuff into our chat because it's just a bunch of slop, right? Say what
⏹️ ▶️ John you have to say or show us the pictures you think are good. And I get,
⏹️ ▶️ John like I said on a past thing of like somebody who doesn't know how to use a phone saying, oh, I just started typing to my friend
⏹️ ▶️ John about a trip to Japan and it prompted me to send the photos. Like that person does need that kind of help, but as a demo,
⏹️ ▶️ John as a general purpose thing, you need to be able to drill down. I know this is a version 1.0. We're just glad if it works at
⏹️ ▶️ John all, right? But every one of these demos, I saw the part where it's like, well, now is the part where
⏹️ ▶️ John the human's going to want to make a decision. It's like saying, book me a vacation. Like nobody wants to do that as a real thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John You do it as a demo to show how cool your thing is, but no one wants to do that because you're like, I want to pick my flight times. I want to pick my
⏹️ ▶️ John airline. I want to pick my seats. I want to pick my hotel. You want to have input because it's
⏹️ ▶️ John your life. And the difference between this and like a human assistant is presumably if you have a human assistant
⏹️ ▶️ John who is this skilled, you're fabulously wealthy and that you pay them a lot of money to know your actual tastes and probably you
⏹️ ▶️ John still have complaints about it. But yeah, so these demos as a demonstration that Siri no longer sucks
⏹️ ▶️ John were convincing, but they were not convincing to me as a demonstration of the thing that humans are going to do with their phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, this is true of like almost every modern AI demo. Like with every new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AI model that comes out, every AI-based product, you know, every company that integrates AI into their stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they always come up with these like, you know, kind of contrived, weird demos that no one really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco does or would do in that way. But also. Or if they did, their friends would yell at them about it. Right. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also Apple's own keynotes have always been filled with these kinds of demos. You know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just it's been less sophisticated, but it's been… They've always included some contrived
⏹️ ▶️ Marco situation often being performed by Craig Federigi that nobody would ever actually do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And also, if you tried to do it, it wouldn't work as well. And this is the thing,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I was saying Apple has a credibility problem with a lot of these areas, this goes back in lots of ways,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like even before AI, and Siri has always been a big one. But even just stuff like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the stuff they demo at WDC oftentimes does not pan out
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way that they seem to hope or think it will. Things like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iWork documents being collaboratively edited, where it's like, well, no one actually ever does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that because it sucks and everyone just uses Google Docs. A lot of this new AI stuff is like, okay, well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will people actually do this with Apple's intelligence or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Siri, you know, whatever version of that we're talking about? Or will they just bounce out to ChatGPT
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or Claude or something else and do it there because they're better? You know, like there's, this is like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this is two different questions. Like number one, will Apple's version of this thing work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and work reliably? And then number two, will it be competitive?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then will it stay competitive over the course of the following year if they just kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco half-assedly updated along the way or don't update it at all along the way, which often is the case with Apple's
⏹️ ▶️ Marco features? So this is a great set of promises. The
⏹️ ▶️ Marco demos didn't really tell us what we really wanted to know, which is does it work and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how well does it work? And that's the kind of thing we will only find out with time. Everybody who's ever used an
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple platform or been near a home pod knows like Siri
⏹️ ▶️ Marco over-responds and under-delivers. We have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all had pathetic Siri failures. Will this finally fix
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it? I mean, I like to think maybe, but I almost feel like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco am I being naive for even believing that it's possible for Apple to fix it? Like we've been burned so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco many times. So they need to earn our trust. That's going to take time. They might
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be on the path to do that with this new version of all this stuff. I hope they are because I, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it might not seem this way all the time, but I'm rooting for them. I want them to succeed because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like and use their products. But we have just been burned so many times in these areas.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What they have shown today is an interesting concept.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Will it deliver? Will it be reliable? Will we actually be using all of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco these features a year from now? Or will we be saying at next WBTC,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yeah, that thing they showed up, that never happened. Or yeah, I used that once then never again because it sucked. Or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yeah, that started out pretty unreliable and now it's kind of okay. Or are we going to actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be integrating this stuff into our daily lives? Are we actually going to be using it so much that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we don't even think about how unreliable or crappy it used to be? We don't know yet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We have to see what happens. Does this actually ship? How does it ship? Is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it good? And that's, I feel like what people are feeling with this keynote, the reason
⏹️ ▶️ Marco why it's kind of gotten a mixed reaction from a lot of the people I've seen is that we can't
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know that yet. All we have right now is more promises.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Let's hope that they pan out.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I do think the last model problem is maybe I think for next year's WWEC is like, even
⏹️ ▶️ John on the simple stuff of you're not doing an interactive, you're not planning a whole vacation, you're not planning a party or any of these silly contrived
⏹️ ▶️ John things. Although I will say for the past contrived things, the only thing that was contrived about it was that all the person's friends
⏹️ ▶️ John were fashion models and all the pictures were amazingly taken and everything. But anyway, this one is the contrived thing of like
⏹️ ▶️ John no one ever wants an agent to do all this stuff for them. But even for the simple stuff that you might imagine
⏹️ ▶️ John yourself doing, which is, you know, tell me when mom's slide is arriving, which they did not do this time. But
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann that's just an informational
⏹️ ▶️ John Even on that demo, my question would be, say they did that demo and it said, look, it works. And it told me when my mom's fly is arriving.
⏹️ ▶️ John Can I copy and paste from that window? Can I like, where is the last mile? Like, oh, I want that information.
⏹️ ▶️ John And note, say, like, oh, just send it in a message to blah, blah, blah. Like at a certain point,
⏹️ ▶️ John you as the user need to, at any point, you as the user need to be jump in, to jump in and say,
⏹️ ▶️ John let me do my user things. Like that's the thing about the other ones where there's like, oh, I'm making a
⏹️ ▶️ John party invitation. Some human doing the demo would drag in the three prepared pictures
⏹️ ▶️ John of models for the thing, but they would pick them. They would pick them. They would decide where they go.
⏹️ ▶️ John The human has to have some role here other than a, you know, offhand comment
⏹️ ▶️ John yelling to your personal assistant in the next room to do a thing. It's like, do I not have a role in my life?
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, I need to be able to jump in at any point. And these black bubbles, these Siri conversations, you can go to this app
⏹️ ▶️ John and you can see your past conversations. Okay, that's a start. But like part of, I think, the utility people get out of
⏹️ ▶️ John like the, you know, ChatGPT web interface or whatever is, it's just like you can copy and paste out of that window.
⏹️ ▶️ John There's little copy buttons next to things. You can jump to another window and do another thing. Like the
⏹️ ▶️ John user is involved. And all these demos were like, your involvement is just
⏹️ ▶️ John giving vague directions and approving the things that I present you. And it's like, no, I need to be more involved than
⏹️ ▶️ John that. Not, I don't need to do it all. Like I need the assistant to assist me, but even again, something as simple as some information
⏹️ ▶️ John and it gives me the information. Am I just going to look at that? I probably wanted that for something. So at the very least, I
⏹️ ▶️ John need to be able to copy and paste it out of the window. Now, maybe you can. Maybe you can copy and paste it out of the window, but none of the demos showed
⏹️ ▶️ John anything other than I talk in bubbles appear and maybe I press a yes or no button. And that, I think,
⏹️ ▶️ John is a non-starter. That's the reason I think people like the chat GPU web interface is because it's more than that,
⏹️ ▶️ John that you do participate in it. So I don't want to sound like I'm down on this because I'm with you, Marco. Like I
⏹️ ▶️ John want this to work and I think it can work and it's going to be way better than it was before, I
⏹️ ▶️ John think. But the whole industry has a ways to go on the dream of like, it's
⏹️ ▶️ John like a smart personal system. It knows all your tastes and can do everything for you. That doesn't exist. This demo doesn't show it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nobody has it. It does not exist. Even finding human assistance to do that is really difficult.
⏹️ ▶️ John And people like to think it does exist and they like to do demos pretending it exists, but it absolutely doesn't.
⏹️ ▶️ John And instead, what people should be doing demos of is, we know the limitations of this technology. Here are
⏹️ ▶️ John all the places you can intervene to still have a successful endpoint, to still have a successful
⏹️ ▶️ John party, to still send the five pictures that you wanted to send with the help of the AI narrowing
⏹️ ▶️ John it down for you and giving you the final choice in an interface that is not a tiny black bubble floating over the whole rest
⏹️ ▶️ John of your phone screen.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and what's funny is when they talked about Sirio Mac OS, you know, they said it's integrated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into Spotlight, blah, blah, blah. And they literally said, of course, this is a Mac. So I can drag this window anywhere and resize
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it to see more. Anyway, so yeah, we'll see what happens.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I'm trying to page your show notes and see if there's anything else.
⏹️ ▶️ John Actually, I want to, before we move on from that, there was one demo where, speaking of demos that they might have to do multiple times,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, was there single take demos and stuff, the demo where they were doing, I forget what they were doing, they were doing some kind of Siri thing on the Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ John It was showing cool stuff like you could multi-select files in the Finder and then say, I want to ask a Siri question about this and basically compare
⏹️ ▶️ John these and it makes a little table. Like that's super useful. Again, the less limited Apple's platforms are,
⏹️ ▶️ John the more I feel like the integration of Siri can be useful because you can multi-select a bunch of files and right
⏹️ ▶️ John click them and say, ask Siri about them. Try doing that in the files app on your phone with your finger. Good luck.
⏹️ ▶️ John If they even allow you. But one of the demos was like, and see, it even
⏹️ ▶️ John understands my typos, which if anyone who has ever used LLM-based chatbots and stuff knows, you
⏹️ ▶️ John can put typos in there. You can misspell words. You can fat finger things. It
⏹️ ▶️ John deals with it just fine because its training data is filled with typos. And so it's fine about that. It's not like it has to spell
⏹️ ▶️ John correct or something. It just, it doesn't matter. Did that person intentionally make that typo? I think they put
⏹️ ▶️ John like electrical, but they put like an X because the X is near the C key on the keyboard or whatever. Did they have to practice
⏹️ ▶️ John that exact way? Oh, you must do another take. You typed it correct. Like, are they a touch typist? And like, it's hard for me to
⏹️ ▶️ John intentionally make a mistake on that specific word in this specific way. But it reminded me of the Utah
⏹️ ▶️ John road trip where the guy was doing a Utah road trip demo of some like thing that was making like a, I don't know, a slideshow
⏹️ ▶️ John or something in an old Mac keynote. And the autocorrect got him. Like they had just added
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco autocorrect or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever S was in. And it auto corrected, he typoed Utah. Supposed to be Utah
⏹️ ▶️ John Road Trip was the typo. And he auto, the system auto-corrected Utah, the misspelled Utah, to its
⏹️ ▶️ John IT apostrophe S. So instead of Utah Road Trip, it said its road trip. And the guy had such a
⏹️ ▶️ John smack on forehead expression and like an upset face. And on the screen, it says it's road trip.
⏹️ ▶️ John That was a meme for a long time. And then what Apple did was history eraser button that. When they
⏹️ ▶️ John put out that video, they replaced it with another take where he successfully types Utah Road Trip. And you don't get to see
⏹️ ▶️ John the guy and go, oh, I hope someone still has that original. I think it's probably in YouTube, the original
⏹️ ▶️ John It's Road Trip thing. So this reminded me of that. It was a vague call back to It's Road Trip. It's like, see,
⏹️ ▶️ John I can do typos and it still understands me. It's incredible.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There's a new dedicated Siri app, which we all expected. They talked about visual intelligence for a while, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mostly I didn't think was that interesting personally. But one thing that I thought was very cool was they said,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and this went by super fast, so I might get the details wrong, but that you can split a bill by shooting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an image of like the tab, the check or what have you. And then I'm not clear exactly how.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think Siri parses it. And then you basically somehow tell it, okay, well, Marco had this, John had
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, I had this. And then it'll figure out what the total should be and split it amongst all the people, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very cool if it actually works.
⏹️ ▶️ John It's going to be real embarrassing when you do that and the total doesn't come out to the total of the bill.
⏹️ ▶️ John The LMs are notoriously bad at doing math unless they have specific tool use, which hopefully this does. I do wonder like it
⏹️ ▶️ John will correctly split the bill and then you say, oh, actually make Jim pay $2 more. And then it starts.
⏹️ ▶️ John When you start doing deltas and then at the very end, you take those numbers into a calculator and add them up. Just check maybe that
⏹️ ▶️ John they equal the total. Otherwise, you're not stiffing people. But yeah, it'll be cool if it works.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can write and edit with Siri, which, I mean, whatever. I did think it was interesting, though, that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when they were talking about making a document, they said you could describe a document in natural language. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they said, Siri can generate a draft to get the ball rolling. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought it was interesting that they were making it clear that the implication was we are not advocating
⏹️ ▶️ Casey necessarily having Siri write an entire document for you, but you can get the bones of it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then fill in what you want afterwards, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I thought was reasonable.
⏹️ ▶️ John I saw a lot of people online complaining about this because they're like, who would ever ask an LM to write a thing for them?
⏹️ ▶️ John And as I've said in past episodes, I encourage people to write things themselves, but I totally
⏹️ ▶️ John understand the situations, the context in which people desire something like this, which is
⏹️ ▶️ John a context in which they don't feel like they're expressing themselves anyway. This is not a place for me to express
⏹️ ▶️ John any of my knowledge or opinion about anything. In fact, this is a place where I have
⏹️ ▶️ John to perform a certain, I have to perform a certain role in a way that is satisfying
⏹️ ▶️ John to others that does not require any input from me. And in that scenario, there is only
⏹️ ▶️ John downside for me trying to write this myself, because what if I failed the performance in some way? So instead,
⏹️ ▶️ John I will have a machine write this for me because honestly, it is not an expression of myself in any way. I know this sounds terribly
⏹️ ▶️ John dehumanizing, but what I'm essentially describing is large parts of several real jobs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John where you have
⏹️ ▶️ John to do this. And that's where I think these tools, where
⏹️ ▶️ John the people who see this and say, yes, I would like to do that. That's where the appeal lies.
⏹️ ▶️ John Now, I still think in those scenarios, these tools are still bad because the prose that they create
⏹️ ▶️ John is fairly easily detectable by people who are exposed to a lot of it as not being from a human.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it also encourages people not to proofread and it allows them to just say, oh, just send it. Someone else wrote
⏹️ ▶️ John it for me. I'm sure it's fine. There are very few scenarios where none of your participation
⏹️ ▶️ John is required. For example, you don't want to have the chatbot write a thing for you and then you never read what it wrote and then
⏹️ ▶️ John you just hit send. That's going to end badly for everybody involved. And to be clear, I don't
⏹️ ▶️ John endorse these features, but I understand why some people see them and desire them. And I could say,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, you shouldn't desire them because it's bad. But I understand why they desire them
⏹️ ▶️ John because lots of scenarios, again, people have to accomplish something that is
⏹️ ▶️ John not expressing themselves or their ideas or anything that they know, which is sad, but
⏹️ ▶️ John true. And so I mean, the real solution is don't put people in those scenarios and don't require them to do that. But
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, this was one of the sadder parts of the, of the keynote for me because I'm
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can right click a document and it will write some crap for you. And it's just like every bone in my body
⏹️ ▶️ John says, don't do that. But then I understand why that feature exists. So it's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. They talked about apps and basically this is kind of like the grab bag section.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Safari, apparently they've been looking at your Safari windows. John, again, everything's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey coming out coming up mailhouse. You can organize tabs by topics and then as you browse, it will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey automatically add new tabs into these like, I don't know, macro tabs. I didn't get the terminology.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don't know why you think this is for me as I discussed the thing last episode when we talked about the rumor of this feature. I don't think I would ever use this feature.
⏹️ ▶️ John I got to manually arrange everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you wouldn't, but you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John have so many friggin
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Maybe it's useful to other people if it works well. We'll see. It depends on how they implement it. If they implement
⏹️ ▶️ John it in an automated way that it just happens to people, it'll either drive some people nuts where they'll say, why
⏹️ ▶️ John does it keep rearranging my tabs? And everyone has to go and learn how to turn it off. Or it will satisfy some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. Safari lets you, well, will let you automatically monitor a page with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a new feature called Notify Me. As someone who, as part of my container or my collection
⏹️ ▶️ Casey O containers, I run this thing called changedetection.io, which there is a hosted version,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but there is also a version you can run in a container. And what this basically does is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it lets you monitor web pages that perhaps don't emit
⏹️ ▶️ Casey RSS feeds or whatever the case may be. It'll let you monitor for like things being available
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for sale that weren't before. Their marketing website is pretty, pretty crappy, but I'll put a link
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the show notes. This is an incredibly useful tool for me. I think we talked about way back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when that the reason I got a Unify travel router, which by the way, is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking to you through right now, is because I had this thing checking like every 60 seconds on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Unify's website to see if it was available or not. Anyways, that is now a part of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Safari, or if you squint anyway, it's a part of Safari with their notifying me feature. So does
⏹️ ▶️ John Safari have to be running? You have to have a Mac that's not asleep or maybe it works in sleep? Like that's
⏹️ ▶️ John And you bring this up, Casey. I think I talked to you about this a couple of weeks ago because I wanted to do something similar.
⏹️ ▶️ John I ended up just vibe coding something. I was checking the menu of a local sandwich place to see if the sandwich, see
⏹️ ▶️ John if their specials included the sandwich that I like that they rarely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is big, big Casey Energy right here, and I'm so proud of you.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I was, yeah, they have a special, which is an egg salad BLT, which I thought should have been on their menu.
⏹️ ▶️ John thought it should have been on their
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco menu all the time. And
⏹️ ▶️ John it's not a food that I have a lot. Like, they put it on their menu like once every couple months. But anyway, I kept missing it. So I'm like, I'm just going to set up
⏹️ ▶️ John a monitor for this. And I declined your Docker container. And I was going to Vibe
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey code it myself.
⏹️ ▶️ John But of course, they had switched to some third-party menu provider that it's like a single-page web app where the actual rendered page has
⏹️ ▶️ John like two tags in it and it's all JavaScript generated. And so I had to find their backend JSON thing, but their back-end
⏹️ ▶️ John JSON thing is authenticated. So I had to find a way to fake the authentication
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey so I could get an authenticated
⏹️ ▶️ John request for the JSON backend. And it worked and it told me when the exhale BLT was available. And I bought it recently
⏹️ ▶️ John and it was disappointing. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh no. Wait, this sandwich was disappointing? They lost the… Somehow, the exhale was bad. I don't know if they put too much Dill
⏹️ ▶️ John in it or something, but I was really disappointed. So I took off my monitoring. But anyway, this is
⏹️ ▶️ John obviously a, I think if more people knew about this, like if it wasn't just nerds like
⏹️ ▶️ John vibe coding something or using a Docker container or going to change text and IO, I think this could be useful for people. But I do
⏹️ ▶️ John wonder if it's going to require them to keep their Macs from going to sleep.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is fair. And possibly the scariest thing that I saw the entire keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the internet was all over this. Passwords, the app can automatically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fix websites that have been compromised or where you've used the same password multiple times.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is incredible and also very scary, but I think it's the right idea. I mean, I applaud them
⏹️ ▶️ Casey going down that road. I don't think I would ever use it, but that's just me.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think the only way they can do that, like the passwords app has supported since its introduction, I think,
⏹️ ▶️ John all of the various .well-known URLs where there's like there's
⏹️ ▶️ John for this where it's like, if you have a website and you have a password system, you should support
⏹️ ▶️ John these endpoints, even if they just redirect and it's like slash dot W-E-L-L hyphen
⏹️ ▶️ John K-N-O-W-N slash blah, blah, blah, where it's like change password, set password, blah, blah, blah.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I think most sites just implement as Rudex. But the point is, a lot of sites don't implement that at all. And I think the passwords
⏹️ ▶️ John app can only help you with websites that support these well-known URLs.
⏹️ ▶️ John I'm not sure because I just saw a keynote. So we'll find out when this thing ships, but I would be terrified if passwords
⏹️ ▶️ John just tried to do it for any old website. Because if you've ever gone to any old website and tried to change your password,
⏹️ ▶️ John as a human, it's hard to figure out how to do it a lot of the times. So I'd have very little, what
⏹️ ▶️ John they would present to you is, hey, you have five passwords that suck. Do you want to fix all five? And you hit one button
⏹️ ▶️ John and then magic happens and it updates your passwords on five websites. As a human, me updating five
⏹️ ▶️ John bad passwords on five websites takes me a long time and is frustrating. I don't think a machine can do it unless
⏹️ ▶️ John they all support those .well-known URLs.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Let's see what else. They talked about how
⏹️ ▶️ Casey calendar will have fantastic house style natural language input, which I am very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey much here for. I think that's great. But it already had that,
⏹️ ▶️ John which was interesting. I mean, I guess. But now it won't suck as bad. Right.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, that's the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It did, but it was very bad. They said that when you are in the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone app and if you are calling a business, and I'm not clear how they know any of these things,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they will try to surface like relevant information. So the example they gave is, hey, I'm calling, let's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey say, Delta to change a flight. Siri will surface your most recent flight information,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey including like a confirmation number or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John surface the wrong flight information if you have
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey multiple flights and this is the most recent
⏹️ ▶️ John email. This is the danger of these agents of giving you just-in-time data. Like I like that it's doing it. And in a demo,
⏹️ ▶️ John the most recent email complains your flight number. But what if you've scheduled a bunch of different flights and they're round trips and there's
⏹️ ▶️ John different flight numbers and you're on the phone and you're like, yeah, my flight is one, two, three, four, five, because that's what it says in the phone app, but it's totally
⏹️ ▶️ John wrong. It's not that flight. It may require you as a human to go to your mail app, find the mail, look at the
⏹️ ▶️ John information in the mail and say, is this the flight? Or is this my wife's ticket? Or is this the return flight?
⏹️ ▶️ John Demos. Yep. Who would ever have more than one flight information in their email
⏹️ ▶️ John thing? Setting aside whether, and we'll get to this maybe in the next episode, whether or not Siri
⏹️ ▶️ John can see your email. Because what if you don't use the mail app?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is very fair. They talked about the home app in okay,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure. Like they said, one of the things that they'll do, which is cool if it works, but I am very skeptical
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the crap home app and the crap Siri put together will somehow be a polished diamond.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But here we go. They said that they will basically coalesce disparate notifications. So like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Michaela crossed into the driveway, went to the front door, walked in the front door. The front door was open. The front door was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey closed. That is all coalesced until like Michaela came home, you know, or something along those lines. You get the idea.
⏹️ ▶️ John The Google apps do this already. They do it themselves by just sending a single notification with a summary in it. But it seemed
⏹️ ▶️ John like the feature they were, I can't tell if the feature they were describing is that, hey, we'll take arbitrary apps notifications and then summarize
⏹️ ▶️ John them and coalesce and condense them into one. Or were they saying now the home apps more acts
⏹️ ▶️ John more like the Google app in that it will not send 25 notifications. It will coalesce them and send one notification with a summary.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That's a subtle difference, but you are right. And I'm not sure which one it is. It also said that they would
⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically do, they would put together clips from compatible
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cameras is what they said to like make one event out of multiple perspectives. And then speaking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the whole internet, the whole internet lost their minds about a raccoon. I think I was looking down
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and typing, so I missed what happened. What the heck is this about?
⏹️ ▶️ John Someone delivers a fruit basket to a house and is caught on camera from seven different angles and said, Robert arrived and saved your
⏹️ ▶️ John fruit basket. So I guess it did facial recognition or whatever. And it saw it was a fruit basket. And then he puts the fruit basket
⏹️ ▶️ John on the table. And then what I presume is a stunt raccoon, or as many people said, an AI generated raccoon, but
⏹️ ▶️ John it looked real to me, but who can tell? A raccoon in the middle of the day, probably has rabies, comes
⏹️ ▶️ John up and crawls onto the table and gets at the fruit basket. Immediately, by the way, like with no delay.
⏹️ ▶️ John The raccoon was already there waiting. Again, raccoons generally shouldn't be out and active during the day. And if they
⏹️ ▶️ John are, you should stay away from them, but I wouldn't eat that fruit.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, like, I didn't quite know. Like, I was expecting the summarized,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, the summary of it to then be updated to say, and then a raccoon came on the table or something, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it didn't. So it kind of made the feature look bad, I think.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think they were saying that the notification, like the same notification would update and show different
⏹️ ▶️ John content as new things happened, which I think would be something new because the Google app can't do that. The Google app just sends you a notification that
⏹️ ▶️ John says three people walk dogs in front of your house or something, right? But yeah, maybe they just didn't fit that
⏹️ ▶️ John into the demo. The stunt raccoon is probably not a thing that will come up in your life.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Probably not. But for what it's worth, Marco, one of the things they specifically did say was that the,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and actually, I guess that answers John's question. They said that as new notifications arrive, it will update
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the coalesced notification with new information. And to your point, I guess it didn't happen in this case.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Cameras finally get 4K resolution, excuse me. HomeKit cameras can or HomeKit Secure
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Video can now do 4K. They did the thing that everyone knew that they would, natural
⏹️ ▶️ Casey language description to create shortcuts. They talked about image playground. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically, this is all stuff that I don't care about, except that you can now use photorealistic output
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the first time. Remember, everything used to be very cartoony, deliberately.
⏹️ ▶️ John And now it just looks like what everyone thinks of as AI-generated imagery. Like they did
⏹️ ▶️ John the little sample they showed you of like a bunch of thumbnails. You're right that they do look
⏹️ ▶️ John more photoreal than the intentionally cartoony ones used to, but they all kind of look a little AI.
⏹️ ▶️ John This was the part where they put like the birthday person in an outfit and put candles on the cake and stuff, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Was that the section?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I think you're right.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I just the novelty value
⏹️ ▶️ John of AI generated imagery has not had particularly amazing
⏹️ ▶️ John staying power, especially since the models are still producing imagery that people
⏹️ ▶️ John are currently able to detect as having been AI generated. If and when they surpass that
⏹️ ▶️ John and people can't tell anymore, I feel like the stigma will leave a little bit. But right now, I think there is kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of a stigma. If you were to AI generate an image and send it to somebody, you're
⏹️ ▶️ John better off sending them a terrible low resolution meme from 1997 than you
⏹️ ▶️ John are AI generating a pristine photorealistic version of grandma on a skateboard on the half
⏹️ ▶️ John pipe, like the little thing they said. Like the amusement value of that, I feel like is already diminishing culturally. But
⏹️ ▶️ John I think the upshot of this section is image playground, the images no longer suck.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That's what it comes
⏹️ ▶️ John image generation, Apple was massively behind and their new image generator is no longer embarrassingly
⏹️ ▶️ John behind. You can actually generate imagery that looks like middle
⏹️ ▶️ John of the road image generation from any of the contemporary products in this Apple demo. We'll
⏹️ ▶️ John see how it does. But again, if people want to generate an image, are they going to
⏹️ ▶️ John launch Image Player Ground if they know it exists? If they know that it's here on their Mac? That's something like, is anybody
⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually use this stuff?
⏹️ ▶️ John No. Well, for the people who are currently generating AI generated images because they amused them, whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John image generator they're already using, I don't feel like this is going to displace them.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So then they did the photo section. You can enhance images in ways that respect the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey original moment, they said, word for word. You can clean up. You can extend. So you can add
⏹️ ▶️ Casey space around the image. Pretty much everyone has a story about how they wanted to, including you, John. I feel like you've talked about this.
⏹️ ▶️ John I've been using other apps to do this for years. It is very useful, especially for doing wallpapers, like because your phone
⏹️ ▶️ John tall. And I didn't want my family's faces to be covered by the clock, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John would always add stuff. And there's tons of apps that do this. Again, I usually use Pixel Meter or sometimes I use Photoshop
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. But yes, this is a feature they should add to photos. I think it's a huge thumbs up. The extend feature is great for
⏹️ ▶️ John being able to add a little background where you need it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And then you can also reframe and you can do a spatial reframing, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think as a technological case study or like as an engineering
⏹️ ▶️ Casey case study, this is so freaking cool. And I know that the people who are better photographers than me,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is almost everyone, took some issue with this. And I will let you talk about that in just a second. But I think this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is incredible. So what you do is you take a photo and it doesn't have to be captured with an Apple device. It can be just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a regular photo from like my Olympus micro four-thirds camera. And it will compute
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and figure out the depth that was captured in that photo. And you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey can basically move around, drag the photo around to reposition where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the person taking the picture was within this 3D space. I bet
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you this is not going to work near as well as it looked on the keynote, but what they showed on the keynote was incredible.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I really also liked that as you're dragging around and repositioning things during
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the interactive part of it, the areas that generative fill would fill in are kind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of like a whitish blur. And so they're not like computing it, of course, as you're moving
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things around, but you're getting a very clear indication of how much of this image is about to be blurred.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think this is incredible if it even close to works. However,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do completely understand everyone's complaints about this, which I will let either one of you, I guess John, perhaps
⏹️ ▶️ Casey take over why this is upsetting to people.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it being upsetting to people is just like, oh, don't take your photos and like, AI generate stuff on them
⏹️ ▶️ John and just like let the photos be what they are. But here's my take on it, which is, I guess, perhaps even more cynical.
⏹️ ▶️ John is that no feature can make people care about framing photos. That's my take.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like the idea
⏹️ ▶️ John that people can look at a photo and detect in any way that it is poorly framed,
⏹️ ▶️ John I think is false. I've known this from every other person who's not a photographer in my life. They
⏹️ ▶️ John take photos that are incredibly poorly framed and they do not care. Not only do they not care,
⏹️ ▶️ John they can't tell. They can't distinguish a well-framed photo from a not well-framed one. They don't care
⏹️ ▶️ John that their photos are badly framed. They don't care that people have a pole coming out of their head. They don't care
⏹️ ▶️ John that it's 98% background that no one cares about. They don't care that it's shot up at an unflattering angle. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John for the exception of like people taking selfies where they're trying to make themselves look hot or whatever, for the most part, when
⏹️ ▶️ John people take pictures in groups, I cannot convince anybody in my life to care how photos are framed. Now,
⏹️ ▶️ John it's great that this picture says, like, oh, let you reframe it like you said, Casey, like virtually change where
⏹️ ▶️ John the person might have been standing so that, you know, the pole isn't coming out of the top of their head because if you took it from two
⏹️ ▶️ John feet to the left, the pole would be off to the side of them. But just getting people to understand that it's bad to have a pole
⏹️ ▶️ John coming out of your head in the picture is insane. Now, you know what the main thing that can make your pictures
⏹️ ▶️ John better with respect to framing is? It's called cropping, and it existed for the life of the iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nobody does it because they do not know that their pictures are poorly framed. Like cropping is the
⏹️ ▶️ John number one thing you can do to your picture. You know, again, extending, if you actually got it too close,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can extend now. So that's a cool AI feature. But most of the time, people make the opposite mistake. There's too much background.
⏹️ ▶️ John You're not centered. The camera is tilted, blah, blah, blah. And people don't care. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I think extend is the best feature here. Clean up is the second best. Reframe is a little bit silly
⏹️ ▶️ John and is going to make people ruin their pictures a little bit. But here's the thing, because people don't care about
⏹️ ▶️ John how pictures are framed. If you show them that, they're like, oh, that's cool. And if I think about it for two seconds, they'd be like, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John how does it even do that? But I don't see them driven to use the feature because like
⏹️ ▶️ John it's not solving a problem they have. They're like, well, it's neat that you can do that. And I get how it's kind of like amazing in future
⏹️ ▶️ John because how does it know what's behind my head? They can't see it. Oh, it's making it up with the computer. That's amazing. But the
⏹️ ▶️ John question they would ask is, but why would I ever want to do this? I can already crop. I can already
⏹️ ▶️ John extend. I could see why I might want to use those if I ever wanted to touch my photos at all.
⏹️ ▶️ John So yeah, I think reframe, I know they're excited about it and it's the coolest tech, but I think cleanup
⏹️ ▶️ John and extend are the highlight features.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the, I mean, this, this raises some interesting questions that we've been fighting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as an industry for a long time now of like, what is a photo? Is it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheating? Is it misleading? Is it fake? And I think everybody draws
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that line in a little bit different place. Apple so far, I think has done
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pretty good job of finding that balance with their features that they've chosen.
⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, I would say Apple, one of the things Apple does really well here is all of their edits
⏹️ ▶️ John are non-destructive. So you can always revert to original. And that provides
⏹️ ▶️ John a level of surety about what the real photo is versus the edited that lots of other applications don't provide.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Absolutely. Yeah. But, you know, I think like where I come down on it, which I think is basically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where Apple comes down on it, is like, I don't think it's great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have tools that can make photorealistic images of things that didn't
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really happen and pass them off as things that did happen. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be able to edit your photos to create a moment
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that really didn't exist and was pretty far from existing, I think that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is questionable and tricky. But if you are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using editing, whether it's AI or older methods like Photoshopping and tweaking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco colors and stuff like that, if you're using editing to create a misleading
⏹️ ▶️ Marco picture, that's morally questionable and that's a problem. But if you're using editing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make the image that you were trying to capture better,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it's still depicting a moment that occurred, and these tools
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are just helping you depict that moment better, I think that's generally fine. Now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, everyone draws that line in different ways. To some people, adjusting the color and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco contrast of an image would be misleading and creating a fake scene that never really existed.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco To some people, using tools like where it extends like this, where you're creating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco entire parts of a scene that not only weren't in the frame, but might not actually exist
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in real life that way. Some people think that is over the line. Some people think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it's fine to delete a trash can in the background or a person who was walking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the background that is not really your subject. Some people think that's wrong. I think I generally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco land where Apple lands with this. And I think they have found a good balance so far of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the tools they have offered in photos editing to generally maximize
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the value to the person without too much fraud.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So I think that's basically it in terms of features. There's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a few more things to talk about, of course, but any other features we want to discuss before I move on?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I'm just, I'm really excited to get into all these OSs and just start using them because all those giant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco word cloud slides they had this time, it really does seem like they had a really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco great goal in mind here of tackle everything, every small thing, find a bunch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of small stuff and tackle it. I love that idea. And then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope also that all of these new APIs that we've gotten for all the new AI
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff, I hope this enables a lot of cool little improvements in apps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it can. We will see. The first generation foundation models
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enabled a little bit of fun stuff, but not a ton. Let's see what the second generation can do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco There's still a bunch of limits because they're still on device. The better models still only run on, as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mentioned earlier, like a pretty small number of pretty recent devices. So that could
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a question mark for a while. But I actually like that there's a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whole bunch of little improvements and some pretty interesting API
⏹️ ▶️ Marco improvements for us to play with. But as we were talking about last week about like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, reward versus homework, basically, it seems like the homework side
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of it this year is pretty small. That's awesome. Because that gives all of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco us now the ability to do to our apps what it seemed like Apple was focusing on on their apps through
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the last year, which is make things better. Just overall, just a building year. That's
⏹️ ▶️ John You tricked Marco into giving us final judgment again, but we're still not up to it.
⏹️ ▶️ John One more thing about the Apple intelligence things, which they gave vague answers about and they had more stuff later, which is usage
⏹️ ▶️ John limits. This is a question a lot of people had going into this. We forgot to discuss it in the preview thing, which is, do you have to pay
⏹️ ▶️ John money for this stuff? Because historically speaking, lots of the LLM-powered stuff that we do, especially at the cutting edge, costs money.
⏹️ ▶️ John There's a free version of it, but the free version is not as good as the one you pay for. Is Apple going to charge money for some of these things?
⏹️ ▶️ John And here's what they had to say about that. They said that not the exact words, that daily usage limits apply
⏹️ ▶️ John to some features. This is a direct quote from Apple from the press release. Some Apple intelligence features,
⏹️ ▶️ John including image generation, have daily usage limits because they rely on powerful server models.
⏹️ ▶️ John Increased access is available with most iCloud Plus subscription plans,
⏹️ ▶️ John which also include Apple intelligence support for compatible home cameras. So this is super vague, and
⏹️ ▶️ John this is really kind of an inversion of the industry standard for the past several years, which has been, hey,
⏹️ ▶️ John we have a new subscription for you to pay for, or we've increased the price of your subscription, but guess what? The new subscription
⏹️ ▶️ John or the increased price of the subscription, it comes with these AI features that you didn't ask for. Apple's doing the opposite. You're
⏹️ ▶️ John already paying for iCloud Plus. Well, guess what? If you're already paying for it, we increase your usage limits on
⏹️ ▶️ John a thing that you didn't have before, which is the ability to use our powerful server models to do image generation. The
⏹️ ▶️ John bottom line is that a lot of these features that were shown here that are not running on device cost Apple money
⏹️ ▶️ John to run. And it's always the question of like, well, shouldn't Apple just eat that cost and we get it all for free?
⏹️ ▶️ John And at a certain point, even Apple can't eat it anymore. I mean, what do you expect? More than five gigs of free iCloud storage? No.
⏹️ ▶️ John So now they're going to be running inference for you for free on their, on their slash Google
⏹️ ▶️ John servers up to a point. And we just, we talked about like the iWork
⏹️ ▶️ John apps had those ridiculous limits where you could do like make two slide decks and your usage was up. So we'll see what the limits are. We'll see where the
⏹️ ▶️ John rubber meets the road. But I do like the idea of them saying, some of you are already paying us
⏹️ ▶️ John a subscription. You'll get more stuff because you're already paying us. And I don't
⏹️ ▶️ John think there's good, they didn't announce anything that said, oh, and by the way, all your subscriptions are going up to account for
⏹️ ▶️ John the AI features that you may never use. So far, they haven't said that. All they said is if you pay us, your limits will
⏹️ ▶️ John be higher. I give that a thumbs up. And in general, the economic reality of,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, so you want to do cutting edge stuff with LLMs? Well, it turns out that costs money because someone's got to pay it. And right
⏹️ ▶️ John now we're all sort of gliding on VCs paying for a lot of it for us because these companies just get investor
⏹️ ▶️ John money and charge people to use it, but the price they're charging is not yet potentially
⏹️ ▶️ John paying for what it costs to give out because they're still in that growth phase. I'm not sure where Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John is on the spectrum. Like obviously we've gone over that they have not spent the hundreds of billion dollars if everyone else does, but
⏹️ ▶️ John those servers and those data centers aren't free. Someone's got to be paying for that. And somehow
⏹️ ▶️ John that cost has to be paid by margins on Apple devices, by existing iCloud Plus subscriptions.
⏹️ ▶️ John This will be a tricky balance. And hours after the keynote, I don't know where they're going
⏹️ ▶️ John to land. Their statement is very vague. But in case you were wondering, someone is going to
⏹️ ▶️ John be paying something for some things. It's not all free.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, there's a different side of the cost situation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here, which is developers, it seems like now have access in certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco APIs to the private cloud compute models. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they said if you get the first 2 million installs of your app, you don't pay
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann up to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a certain rate. And then they just didn't say what happens after that.
⏹️ ▶️ John There's been APIs like that. A lot of the CloudKit ones are like that too, where up to some limit, it's all free.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, weather works that way too. And they also said somewhere around
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for iCloud Plus subscribers, they get higher limits. But is that for you and your app too?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It seems like it might have been. So I think this is going to be a pretty weird and complicated
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pricing situation for developers for a little while. And I don't,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, I would never make an app based on the assumption that I would stay under that cap forever.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, I would always have that in the back of my mind. Like, what happens when I cross that 2 million installations mark,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what happens to my cost model that I've made this app based on? So
⏹️ ▶️ John the way Apple has done it with other APIs, though, is, well, I'm not sure about the weather API, but the CloudKit ones, doesn't that get
⏹️ ▶️ John charged against the user? Like it's their iCloud account that they would have to upgrade if they want to use it, Mark?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco CloudKit does, but weather doesn't. So there's a bunch of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John things. So what is this more
⏹️ ▶️ John like? Is it more like CloudKit or is it
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco more like the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it's going to be more like the weather, but they haven't really given a full, and who knows when they're going to announce
⏹️ ▶️ Marco full pricing, probably not for at least a little while.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the weird thing about pricing about these services, like the things we mentioned, the weather API and Cloudkit and stuff, I don't think there's been a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of motion in the limits and the cost structure. Whereas charging
⏹️ ▶️ John for AI inference, that's not a static pricing landscape in 2026.
⏹️ ▶️ John already changed and it is going to, because we get better at doing inference, but then the models get bigger. Like it's not
⏹️ ▶️ John the type of thing that Apple can set in stone in 2026 and just say, we're never going to change this pricing structure because that is
⏹️ ▶️ John so out of touch with where we are with this technology. It's changing from day to
⏹️ ▶️ John day, moment to moment. Like who knows where this will go? It could go massively up, could go massively down. The bubble could
⏹️ ▶️ John burst and everything could go up as huge a price. There could be a breakthrough in inference and everything gets cheaper. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John who could have predicted all the RAM and SSD prices? Like this is not an area where Apple can say,
⏹️ ▶️ John here's the pricing structure and then just never revisit it. I mean, they could, but it would be a terrible idea. So please, Apple, don't do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Please, Maimer, don't hurt them. Also, there was a couple of mentions in the keynote and then later
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a document on Apple's newsroom. And it says, from in this document,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey due to the Digital Markets Act or DMA, Apple will not be able to ship Siri AI in the European
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Union with the release of iOS 27 and iPadOS 27. Over the past several months, EU regulators did not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey accept any of Apple's proposed solutions to bring Siri AI to the EU while safely supporting other virtual
⏹️ ▶️ Casey assistants. Quote, we're deeply disappointed that our EU users won't have Siri AI
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on iPhone or iPad when we share our new software releases later this year, quote, said Craig Federigh, Apple's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey senior vice president of software engineering. Quote, our hope is to eventually bring Siri AI to the EU,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we will continue to engage with the EU regulators on a path forward. However, their refusal to engage constructively
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on solutions that preserve privacy and security means we do not currently have a timeline for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Siri AI's availability on iOS and iPad OS in the EU.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don't know if there was another press release for China, but they didn't mention in the keynote. Also, we don't know how this is going to work in China
⏹️ ▶️ John and it won't be available there until we work something out with the Chinese government. So this is not really any news.
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple continues to fight with the EU about all things related to its platform.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. I do think it was quite funny. I don't know. It's hard for me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have a reasonable and unbiased opinion about this because I think I've been described
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the past as the most American-American, which is not something I'm proud of these days. But nevertheless, I don't know. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do think this is funny, if nothing else, because it's two unstoppable forces
⏹️ ▶️ Casey approaching each other. And I don't know. I don't feel like anyone's.
⏹️ ▶️ John And this is like a lot of the past issues. Apple theoretically has a point, which is
⏹️ ▶️ John to allow third-party LLMs to have the same access that our LLM has
⏹️ ▶️ John would be a security concern on the phone. But then the EU's point is, yeah, that's the whole point of the
⏹️ ▶️ John thing. Whatever access you have, other companies should give access to because it's anti-competitive. If only
⏹️ ▶️ John you can do the fancy things on your phone, how is anyone ever going to compete with Siri on your phone?
⏹️ ▶️ John Like this, this becomes not an avenue for competition because of your stranglehold on the market. And that's where they meet
⏹️ ▶️ John each other. They butt heads, which is like, okay, the EU wants competition. And Apple says, yeah, but A, we
⏹️ ▶️ John don't want competition. We're not going to say that, but we don't want competition. And B, it's difficult for us to figure out how to
⏹️ ▶️ John give competition because we, as the platform owner, have such incredibly invasive access to everything.
⏹️ ▶️ John And we trust ourselves because we're trustworthy, but we don't trust these other companies. And as a consumer,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can like, well, I kind of get where they're coming from because I wouldn't want, you know, Facebook to have unfettered LLM
⏹️ ▶️ John access to my phone to read all of my information and do anything they want. But on the other hand,
⏹️ ▶️ John I also don't want the iOS and Apple platform landscape to always be limited
⏹️ ▶️ John by whatever idea Apple has about something. So Apple says, well, we came up with a solution. We came up with this trusted platform thing or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. And it's just kind of like the different browser engines. Like we came up with a secure way for people to compete with us.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that is just a way, not just a way, but that is also a way for Apple to have a little knob that
⏹️ ▶️ John says, oh, if the competition gets too tight, just turn this knob. Because we control
⏹️ ▶️ John everything that we control the way third parties access the stuff that we let them access. And we control
⏹️ ▶️ John how much they access and we control what they have to do. And we approve their apps. And we're going to force them
⏹️ ▶️ John to jump through all these hoops and, you know, like the third party stores. We'll make it so onerous that no one will ever want to compete with us.
⏹️ ▶️ John That's the cynical take. And the other take is, but on the other hand, you don't want those things to have complete access to the phone.
⏹️ ▶️ John So, you know, no one is completely in the right here. Both parties have
⏹️ ▶️ John difficulty. I mean, the EU is trying to do the right thing, but not understanding the constraints. And
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple is trying to maintain control while also complying with the law. And they're failing
⏹️ ▶️ John to do that. The people who set the law say you are not complying with it. And Apple can disagree, but Apple doesn't
⏹️ ▶️ John make the laws. So this is kind of a bummer for the EU. And I'm not sure what the Chinese situation is there, but it's probably even more
⏹️ ▶️ John grim. And that maybe they want Chinese LLMs to have access to the phone to the same degree
⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple does. Yeah, it's not a good situation. It's just a repeat of all the other things we've had.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the upshot is people in the EU don't get these features. So folks in the EU will try
⏹️ ▶️ John it out for you and tell you if it sucks or not.
WWDC: Themes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that's mostly it. As we mentioned earlier, there was no Ternus. And then at the very, very end,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tim had his personal note where he just basically said the things you would expect Tim to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey say. And then there was a music video at the very, very end, but we're going to talk about that in the after show.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anything else before we wrap on WWDC 2026?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought that the Tim goodbye thing at the end was the perfect
⏹️ ▶️ Marco encapsulation. Because first of all, like, you know, Apple,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we all know that Apple is, you know, that they release new phones in September
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that the OSs are announced, or the OSs ship, you know, right, right before that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a week before that. We know that. But Apple won't even say it. They won't say in the video, ships
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in September. No, they said ships in the fall. Everyone knows when it ships, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they won't say it. Everyone knows at this point, you can see, like, we'll talk about it in a little
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit overtime. There's probably a foldable iPhone coming up, but Apple won't say it. They pretend
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it's still a big secret, and they uphold the secret. And that's how they are with a lot of things. In
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this case, I think Apple is pretending that this is not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim Cook's last event officially, like to, in hosting.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think the only reason they would pretend that way is because they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don't like to transmit their future plans. They don't like to say, look, we all know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that even though we announced John Turnus was going to be CEO on September 1st, we all know that the next event is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably going to be like a week after that. So they won't say that. Even though, again, everyone knows
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. It's the pattern they've kept for years.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I think you just called out the distinction here. The difference about saying when the event is is
⏹️ ▶️ John because that's unannounced. They want to keep their options open. Why would you commit to something when you're not sure whether you're going to hit that
⏹️ ▶️ John deadline? Who knows what could happen between announcements and number? Whereas the CEO transition, they did commit to a
⏹️ ▶️ John date. They wrote it in the press release. There's an exact day. And so it's two different things there. I think
⏹️ ▶️ John the main reason they didn't talk about the transition, even though it has been 100% announced, is
⏹️ ▶️ John because it would distract from the announcement. Like if Tim Cook had said anything, if he had done a big heartfelt,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is my last thing. And I can't believe this is the last time I'm ever going to talk to you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that that would be,
⏹️ ▶️ John there would be stories about that. And by being Tim Cook and saying a word salad that doesn't say anything significant, he's
⏹️ ▶️ John sure that there's not going to be a separate story about his statement at the end of the presentation. And so far, I haven't seen one because
⏹️ ▶️ John it's impossible to write about. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. But that is like by them not being willing to just come
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out and say, yeah, we know that you know that this is Tim's
⏹️ ▶️ Marco last event. We're not going to say that. Everyone knows it, including Tim and all of us,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but we won't actually say it. And then what we will say is, you know, as you said,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco standard Tim Cook fare, it's vaguely pleasant and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fairly content free, but I… Word salad. Yeah, I respect
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what he was trying to do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The iconography of him standing below the giant rainbow at Apple Park
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while he has massively kissed up to the Trump regime that has fought against queer rights
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at every single turn and continues to do so during Pride Month at that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that that was a perfect encapsulation of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco end of Tim Cook's reign.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. I think you're right. All right. Well, thank you for sticking with us for WWDC
⏹️ ▶️ Casey 2026. We still have an after show and overtime to come, but I'm excited. I'm excited.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know we've already done our closing remarks like thrice, so I will just say
⏹️ ▶️ John I haven't done mine once yet. All right, John,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey close it up for you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John did it. When I did it at the
⏹️ ▶️ John beginning, I basically gave the summary version, but I'll just re-wrap it up here because we're at the
⏹️ ▶️ John end. The reason I was so excited about everything that was shown here is because every
⏹️ ▶️ John single thing that they announced makes something better. And I know that's a low bar,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it reminds me of the scene that I think I brought up on this very show in the past from the movie American History
⏹️ ▶️ John X, where the main character, who is a skinhead white supremacist, Nazi kind of guy,
⏹️ ▶️ John is, I think he's in jail at this point. And something terrible happens to him in jail and he's in a hospital bed. And like
⏹️ ▶️ John this guy's talking to him as like his advisor or whatever. And it's like, he's hit rock bottom. He's at his lowest point.
⏹️ ▶️ John He's a skinhead. He committed crimes. He's in jail. He's having a terrible experience in jail. He's still unrepentantly
⏹️ ▶️ John racist and terrible. And this, like, his mentor or guide or whatever, his, you know, black
⏹️ ▶️ John friend is trying to convince him, hey, don't be a Nazi. It sucks.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so he's on the hospital bed and the guy says to him, has anything you've done made your
⏹️ ▶️ John life better? Which is the exact right time to propose that question
⏹️ ▶️ John to this person to sort of get some perspective and see clarity. And I feel
⏹️ ▶️ John like the last WWDC, part of the reason I was so upset about
⏹️ ▶️ John macOS 26 in particular, but a lot of the 26 OS things is I didn't feel
⏹️ ▶️ John like they were making things better. They made a bunch of stuff worse for no good reason.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it's not so much the things they made worse, like broke the world. Oh, it's unusable, blah, blah, blah.
⏹️ ▶️ John It wasn't that bad. It was fine. Like you could get around with it. But like the idea that
⏹️ ▶️ John they would spend an entire year working on something that did not make their OSs
⏹️ ▶️ John better pained me at my core. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John WWDC, pretty much every single thing they announced makes
⏹️ ▶️ John their products better, assuming it works the way they say it does. But there's nothing I saw that was like, oh
⏹️ ▶️ John no, don't do that. That will make your products worse. Now,
⏹️ ▶️ John they were helped by making things so much worse last year that merely
⏹️ ▶️ John improving on that, not even getting back to where they were before, but merely fixing some of the problems
⏹️ ▶️ John from last year does count as making something better, even if the state that it exists
⏹️ ▶️ John in the 26 OS is still isn't as
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco good as it was in iOS 16
⏹️ ▶️ John or 17 or something. But it's the trend. Like that's the thing when people complain to me, oh, you hate these OSs
⏹️ ▶️ John so much or whatever. They're not that bad. They're fine. You can use them. I've said this from day one. It's not actually that bad. The upsetting
⏹️ ▶️ John thing is the direction. Directionally, it is upsetting to see people intentionally
⏹️ ▶️ John using bad ideas to make things worse. And pretty much every single thing in this keynote was using good
⏹️ ▶️ John ideas to make things better by small amounts. And possibly they won't work the way they were shown or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John But at least everything they were showing was good. And there's a lot of it, as we noted. The word clouds, all the big list of
⏹️ ▶️ John things that they're doing, like they didn't even have time to put it all in. There's so much stuff. All these little things,
⏹️ ▶️ John all the things that get the applause lines. I mean, all the things where Casey's writing in the notes, like hell yes to caching
⏹️ ▶️ John on async images, like developer stuff, they're like, yes, finally. I've always wanted
⏹️ ▶️ John that API. I've always wanted that capability. I've always wanted to add keywords on my phone to the Photos app. I've always wanted
⏹️ ▶️ John to be able to extend the frame and not use a third-party app. Every single thing in this keynote is making something better.
⏹️ ▶️ John That's boring for people. Where's my foldable phone? Where's my VR headset? Where's my,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, M5 Mac Studio, right? I get it. I get it why people are not excited by this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This fall, we already shipped it. You didn't like it. And probably next year.
⏹️ ▶️ John But just man, I love, that's why I'm excited about this. I love that everything
⏹️ ▶️ John I'm seeing. And as I go look for more stuff, watch some sessions, learn about this, look at the documentation, I'm like, that's
⏹️ ▶️ John better. That's going to be improving. That's going to be cool. And this is a very familiar feeling for me because that's what WWC
⏹️ ▶️ John always used to be like. It's like whatever came before it, whatever they announced at WWC and all the sessions
⏹️ ▶️ John and the keynotes and all that stuff, it was like, let me tell you all the ways that things are going to be better.
⏹️ ▶️ John And boy, does that feel good after last year. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that's really well put, John.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you to our sponsors this week, Squarespace and Claude. And thanks to our members who support us directly.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Can join us at ATP.fm slash join. One of the perks of ATP membership is ATP
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Overtime, our weekly bonus topic. This week on Overtime, we're going to be talking about some updates
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are popping up about the foldable iPhone. We're going to be covering that in overtime because we just couldn't
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cram into this episode. Join onto listen, ATP.fm slash join. Thanks, everybody, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we'll talk to you next week.
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to begin. Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann John didn't do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him. Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann And you can find the show notes at atp.fm.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them at
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S. So that's K-C-Liss, M-A-R-C-O,
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann A-R-M, E-N-T, Marco, Armen, S-I-R-A-C,
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann U-S-A-Syracuse. It's accidental, accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann They didn't mean to accidental, accidental. Check
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann podcast so long.
Callsheet is famous
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, Casey, you're famous. This is amazing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don't know if I would go quite that far, but uh, it was a very unusual
⏹️ ▶️ Casey end of the keynote. So, I'm sitting there, and the state of the world for me was I was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the main living area of the house that we're staying in, and I was watching the keynote on the TV because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I'm me. You know, I brought an ancient Apple TV with me, and I've had, you know, I'm watching the keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the TV. I'm typing out notes on my laptop, and I'm starting to send a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey text to Aaron as Tim is up saying, hey, the three of you, you know, the three of them are at the beach. You
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, maybe I can pop down for a little bit before the State of the Union. I think it's ending now.
⏹️ ▶️ John You didn't see my message before you left?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, so right as I send that, all of a sudden, Tyler Stallman
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Jason Snell both send me texts at like the exact same moment. Tyler's was two exclamation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey points and Jason's was call sheet in the keynote. And that's all I knew.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I don't understand because they're like a minute to two before me because they're
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the audience. And I don't understand how this is possible. I assumed that I missed something.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey At this point, it's over. I just told Aaron, I'm going to come down to the beach.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I was like 10 seconds ahead of you, which is why I knew I was seeing it before you did. So I immediately
⏹️ ▶️ John typed into the window so you would see it. But at that point, I think you'd already gotten up and left.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, usually the Apple TV stream is like, is like, you know, 10 or 15 seconds behind the online
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stream, which itself is, you know, probably a good minute behind the in-person stream.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I got the info from live people too. The reason I had it much faster than you is I got it from a live person.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So in any case, so I get out my phone and I am so sad because I think Tyler
⏹️ ▶️ Casey said it to me, but I didn't notice until it was all over. Oh, yeah. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tyler sends the two exclamation points, to which I replied with an ellipsis and a question mark. And he sends a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey photo of the presentation, but at this point, of course, it had
⏹️ ▶️ Casey long since moved on. And so I see something, like the screen is fairly far away from him. And I see that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there's some gentleman and like a couple of like round recs on the screen. And Tyler asks, are you watching? And I said, I'm
⏹️ ▶️ Casey seeing Tim doing his wrap-up, to which he said, but I didn't see this until after, oh, keep watching,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey record it and your reaction, which I so deeply wish I had seen that because that's what I should have done. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the heat of the moment, as my heart rate is spiking, because I don't know what's about to happen, but apparently something's going down,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I take out my phone and I record the TV because I don't know what else to do. Like in retrospect, I should have recorded myself,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but whatever. And I record the TV and all of a sudden after Tim fades
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out, they have like appreciation by, was it Eric the Architect, I believe?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so there's this guy standing in what vaguely looks like an office-y kind of reception area.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And he starts rapping, all I need is good reads and some better sleep. And you start seeing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey these app icons pop up. I keep it calm. So these drafts stay in call sheet.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Okay, see, can you put
⏹️ ▶️ John drafts in call sheet?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, not Greg Pierce's drafts, no, but I don't care because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this was one of the coolest things I have had happen to me in a fairly long time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because they're on the Apple keynote, admittedly, after it was kind of sort of over, but on the Apple keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is Jelly's icon for Call Sheet floating in space and approaching
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the camera a little bit, or I guess the camera was approaching it, which I didn't even
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know what to do with myself. You know, I'm like, my heart is racing. At this point, my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone is exploding. I am getting text messages
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from any Apple, any vague Apple person in my life. Like if you were even vaguely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey aware of Apple enough to watch the keynote, every one of them sent me a text and they were all very kind and very excited.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was so, so wonderful. And I'm trying to process this all.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Meanwhile, I'm calling Erin and she's on the beach. As far as she knows, I'm about to walk
⏹️ ▶️ Casey down to the beach potentially. And I said, call she was in the keynote. And she was like, wait, what?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don't, and I don't remember what words I said to her, but I would presume that approximately
⏹️ ▶️ Casey none of them made any sense. And I'm not going to put her on the spot and get her on the mic because that would be way too
⏹️ ▶️ Casey awkward. But suffice to say, I think I made almost no sense. And she's like, well, just stay there and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey handle whatever's going on there. And we're going to, we were actually probably going to come up anyway. So I will be up in a few minutes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so I get through all my text messages and then I look at Indigo,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is the multi-platform app that I'm using these days. And my mentions are a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dumpster fire, but for the first time in a long time, in a good way, which is a welcome change.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So this was extremely cool and extremely unexpected. And I think perhaps the funniest
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit of this whole thing, leaving aside the fact that we were not given the nod for the keynote, and yet here I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey am in the keynote, but whatever, or we were not given the nod to attend WWDC, but here my app
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is in the keynote. But beyond that, Jelly zoomed in a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Jelly noticed that the version of the icon they used is the one that actually has
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Hunt for at October on it and John McTiernan and the release date and so on. At
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one point, like a year, a year and a half ago, they had reached out, Apple had reached out to me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it said in so many words, do you have rights for this? And like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or like, is this kosher? And I was like, I don't know. So I had Jelly whipped
⏹️ ▶️ Casey together an alternative version. They never asked me why. And I actually don't think it related to this. They never asked me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey why they wanted or wanted this information. But I said, well, you know, I'm not sure if it's 100%
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the up and up to me. And I forget how I phrased it, but I'm not sure it's 100% on the up and up. But here's a different version of it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think off the top of my head, it's like the hunt or the search for blue October with the director
⏹️ ▶️ Casey listed as K, K-A-Y C-List, C-E-L-I-S, which was 100% jelly.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was incredible. So it's directed by K-C-Liss. And anyways, and so I made, I think that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey might even be the default app icon now. I haven't thought about icons in a while, but they had this alternative
⏹️ ▶️ Casey completely fabricated version. The one that they used in the keynote video says Hunt for October by John
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco McTierian, which I think is hilarious.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyways, this was a completely surreal experience. I'm still not entirely sure what to make
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of it. And like, you know, because I'm me, in the one moment, I'm like, man,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really did make it. I really did it. Looking, I really, yo, Joe, we did it,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is what I said to Jelly. Yo, Joe, we did it. We did it. But then 10 seconds later, I'm like, oh, they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just needed the right thing to rhyme with drafts or to rhyme with whatever it was.
⏹️ ▶️ John I thought you were going to say, well, where's the call to action?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey on that to buy my thing, this is great.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey turn into sales? Probably not. But it's so funny that my natural inclination
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is to just go from better sleep and call sheet, I guess, were vaguely rhymey.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I'm assuming that that's why they used my app is not because they feel like it's good or anything like that, or they enjoyed the icon. It's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just, oh, we needed something to rhyme with better sleep.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, they think it's good. There are lots of apps in the App Store that honestly would have been a closer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rhyme. So, no, just take this for what it is. It's cool. It's an honor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and enjoy it. I mean, your app has been featured, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I'm assuming
⏹️ ▶️ John they were pulling from the apps that they had already editorially determined that are apps that they like.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I think that's right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it was wild to say the least. I'm very appreciative and very thankful. Now, the other thing I noticed later
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on after I watched it for the 18th time, toward the end of this music
⏹️ ▶️ Casey video thing, what is it? Eric, the architect, I think is the gentleman's name, is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey standing in a room and is holding what appear to be one foot by one foot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey printouts, if you will, of these app icons and just kind of like throwing them and whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let me be clear. I don't know that they ever printed one for call sheet. I never saw like one of these physical
⏹️ ▶️ Casey objects. For all I know, maybe it was CGI anyway. If this exists, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a testicle to have this in my house. Like I will do whatever it takes if
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this thing is real.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get one made. Yes,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey not the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you have to get
⏹️ ▶️ John one from the video.
⏹️ ▶️ John the object itself is not the thing. It's just Provenance that's
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly it. Well planned.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and I would assume they're composited, but it would be really cool if they weren't. Yep, exactly right.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, I think they printed. I think they're, I mean, obviously most of them are CG, but I think they probably have physical ones too.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, well, again, I don't know.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John But yours was
⏹️ ▶️ John one of the ones that I only saw in CG.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Although we should
⏹️ ▶️ John look at that big pile to see if Grok is in that pile on the floor.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we should also.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Speaking of trust
⏹️ ▶️ John and safety, we forgot to mention that trust and safety section.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey They're all as
⏹️ ▶️ John big about safety for children, except when it comes to potentially banning Elon Musk's app that is used to take
⏹️ ▶️ John clothes off children.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it's something else. But also in the video, we mentioned Greg Pearson drafts.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Curtis and Slopes was in it. And I feel like some of our other friends were in there
⏹️ ▶️ Casey some way at some point. But it was so wild and so cool. And we'll put a link to the music video in the show
⏹️ ▶️ Casey notes. It comes at the very, very end of the keynote after Tim's outro or what have you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I am so, you know, it's one of those pinch yourself moments. Like, did that, did that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just happen? Was that real? And it's very, very neat. And, you know, Craig Hockenberry,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I'll try to dig up the toot for the show notes, but made a really interesting point. And it was meant
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a really good way, which is exactly how I took it. But he said basically, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, one of the fun things about WWDC in years past, like several years ago now, was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the design awards, the Apple Design Awards. And it would be incredible
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because you would know, I feel like we knew the nominees, but we didn't know the winners before WWDC. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot of people would go to the actual award ceremony where you would learn who the winner was. And the camaraderie
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the congratulations and all that, that used to be so pivotal and important. I mean, Marco, you've
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talked about wanting one for years.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Absolutely.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that used to be so much more important than I feel like it is now, because now it's basically just a freaking email
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that's all it is. And Craig was lamenting that. And I think Craig is right. But one of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the points that Craig made was that this being in the keynote in any capacity is kind of what the ADA
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has become or that same feeling. We get that with our peers more
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from having like a flash in a keynote because really, ultimately, in this like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey two-hour keynote, the word call sheet being said once and my icon appearing on the screen for like 100
⏹️ ▶️ Casey frames, like that's really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. But it was the coolest thing that's ever happened to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me. So it is kind of a big deal.
⏹️ ▶️ John But Craig is right. Like the, the, uh, the, the combination, the formula you need to make that experience
⏹️ ▶️ John is you need recognition from Apple and you need your peers to witness it.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yes. Well put, well
⏹️ ▶️ John put. The old in-person one was the recognition from Apple is they gave you the award and your peers witness
⏹️ ▶️ John it because WWDC used to be in person, not just for a tiny select group of people who fit in Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John Park, but for like 5,000 people. I know it was still a tiny fraction of the developer base, although in the early
⏹️ ▶️ John years, that actually wasn't a tiny fraction. But anyway, being in front of like 5,000
⏹️ ▶️ John of your peers who care enough to buy an expensive plane ticket to San Francisco, they would get to witness you
⏹️ ▶️ John receiving your recognition from Apple. The venue for that now is not Apple Park because
⏹️ ▶️ John half the people that it's probably less than half that used to go to WWDC are there and half of them are YouTube
⏹️ ▶️ John influencers who don't know who developers are anyway, right? They're just there
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because they think
⏹️ ▶️ John phones are cool and they have no idea who like it's not just developer peers. Now it's mostly just like, you know, mainstream
⏹️ ▶️ John press who are interested in Apple products, not so much interested in developer stuff. Whereas if you showed up, especially at like
⏹️ ▶️ John the ADAs weren't in the keynote back in the day, or at least a lot of the time they were in the keynote, they were a separate thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John Who was still there at WWC? Who's going to go to the ADAs? It was developers. Like a mainstream
⏹️ ▶️ John YouTube influencer or equivalent from back in the day was not going to go to the ADAs at all because they didn't care.
⏹️ ▶️ John So the only way you have to get any recognition in front of your peers is you have to be in the keynote
⏹️ ▶️ John because every developer around the world is watching the keynote, not just the ones who are there. People at Park to see
⏹️ ▶️ John the same video we do. They just see it a little bit earlier, right? And so this is it. This is the only venue we
⏹️ ▶️ John have for you to be recognized by Apple in front of your peers.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Yeah. It felt really freaking good. And I'm going to be riding this high for quite a while, I'm sure. And,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, it felt it felt pretty crummy not to get invited
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to WBDC. And I mean, we have been, I think we already talked about this on the show. We are more commonly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not invited than we are invited. So it is not unexpected to not get the invite,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it, I don't know, it hurts every time a little bit because I don't know, maybe I'm a child, maybe I'm just a person. I don't know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it hurt a little bit. But this definitely turned that frown upside down. And it is very cool and I'm very,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very appreciative. I don't know who at Apple made that happen, or I don't know if it was just that I got super
⏹️ ▶️ Casey lucky and Eric the Architect just needed to make that weird rhyme. But one way or another,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey however it happened, I'm going to choose to believe that it was a subtle nod and a subtle thank you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in my general direction. And that's what I'm going to go to bed with.
⏹️ ▶️ John Based on the lyrics, I don't think Eric the Architect knows what your app does, but I
⏹️ ▶️ John think Apple presented him with a list of apps to incorporate into a rap song.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And your app
⏹️ ▶️ John was among them because Apple likes your app.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I sure hope so. But that wasn't the only video that happened today. There
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was posted to Excel or Twitter of all places, which really grosses me out. But Tim
⏹️ ▶️ Casey posted a video with a bunch of suggestions for how to open the keynote,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I kind of wanted to hate this because it's kind of silly and dumb in a bunch of ways, but I actually kind of liked it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So this is a bunch of random celebrities basically telling him how to say good morning, which was very, very funny.
⏹️ ▶️ John It is so, Marco's many points he's made several times, it is such a Tim Cook thing that his catchphrase
⏹️ ▶️ John is literally good morning. Because that's how he would hope in every keynote. And it's like looking
⏹️ ▶️ John for any sign of life or personality. It's like, well, you do say good morning every single time and you do have an accent
⏹️ ▶️ John that some people find amusing. So you say, good morning. And his whatever it is. It's good morning.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Good morning. I can't do it. But anyway, I think the interesting thing about this video,
⏹️ ▶️ John obviously, this is like, you know, it's not a goodbye Tim video, but it is a Tim dedicated
⏹️ ▶️ John segment in what we know to be his last thing or whatever. Many, many celebrities
⏹️ ▶️ John appear in this video saying the word good morning. Many of them. How long have they been
⏹️ ▶️ John producing this video? A year? A year and a half before he announced
⏹️ ▶️ John his retirement? How do you get the time? Even though you just got to stick a camera in their face for two seconds and say good
⏹️ ▶️ John morning, there's a lot of celebrities. They have busy schedules, just coordinating alone. We want
⏹️ ▶️ John to do a thing for Apple. Are you interested? Do you have time? It'll only take 30 seconds of your time. We might need a crew, blah, blah,
⏹️ ▶️ John blah. Multiply that by 15 A-list actors. This must
⏹️ ▶️ John have been in the works for a long time. And so I feel like this is a lot of effort
⏹️ ▶️ John for a pretty silly segment. And the only reason it exists is because this is Tim Cook's
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don't know if I think it's more that Apple has a lot of connections to the celebrity
⏹️ ▶️ Marco world, you know, first through Apple Music and then later through Apple TV Plus, which is now Apple TV on the Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John I'm not saying people would refuse to do it, just logistically finding room in all of their calendars.
⏹️ ▶️ John It had to have taken six months.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What if they just gave an intern a really big budget to go spend on cameo?
⏹️ ▶️ John the thing. If you've ever seen real cameos, the lighting is terrible. Like these were, not that
⏹️ ▶️ John they were produced and they're in a studio, but they all looked okay. Some of them look really good, where
⏹️ ▶️ John I think they actually sent a crew, but cameos look like you can't even see anything and they're blurry and
⏹️ ▶️ John it's overly compressed and they're like in their back room and it's echoey. And these were all above that level.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don't know. Like I said, I wanted to hate it, but I thought it was kind of cute.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the other thing before we can't say this to the after show, even though, or we can't say this overtime, even though overtime is about the
⏹️ ▶️ John foldable phone, but just to acknowledge a few of the things that these weren't in the keynote. And, you know, obviously
⏹️ ▶️ John there's tons of stuff that wasn't in the keynote, including the whole State of the Union that we'll get to in future episodes. But just
⏹️ ▶️ John in the people scrambling to notice things in the hours after the keynote aired,
⏹️ ▶️ John Vince on Mastodon was the first person who I saw that saw this. Vince says,
⏹️ ▶️ John of course, a tech note on optimizing AppKit for sidecar touch interfaces.
⏹️ ▶️ John Definitely not for touchscreen MacBooks. And this is TN3212 adopting gesture recognizer for
⏹️ ▶️ John sidecar touch support. And it reads in part, in Mac OS 27, AppKit continues to standardize on gesture
⏹️ ▶️ John recognizers as the primary mechanism for input handling. This change directly affects sidecar, which
⏹️ ▶️ John by the way is the thing where you use an iPad as your secondary screen on your Mac. Affects Sidecar
⏹️ ▶️ John because gesture recognizers are the only way to respond to touch input from a sidecar connected
⏹️ ▶️ John iPad running iPad OS 27. This article explains how the gesture recognizer model
⏹️ ▶️ John works and how to implement gesture recognizers correctly for sidecar touch input and how to update your
⏹️ ▶️ John existing event handling code and which APIs Mac OS 27 adds. Do
⏹️ ▶️ John you want to know how to add touch support to AppKit controls? Well, you know, for Sidecar. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco such a common
⏹️ ▶️ John the iPad is a touch interface, and yes, you can use it as a second screen, but you know, you can touch the screen on the iPad.
⏹️ ▶️ John And if you have like an AppKit app and you're, someone's using a Sidecar display, you might want to check out these
⏹️ ▶️ John new APIs we've added to AppKit for gesture recognition for Sidecar, though, for Sidecar.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that's what it's for, obviously.
⏹️ ▶️ John So that, so that is one of the least subtle things I've ever seen. Well done, Apple, because I was like, how are they going to put that out?
⏹️ ▶️ John How are they going to even talk about that? Oh, yeah, Sidecar.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a friend who was a problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John Sam Henry Gold writes, iOS 26 frameworks references fold
⏹️ ▶️ John state and angled degrees, but I'm sure that's nothing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. And Apple's put a lot of a lot of effort in WDC this year is about resizable iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Why would they
⏹️ ▶️ John want to resize the simulator to make an iPhone app really wide? When would that come up? I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don't know. We'll talk about that.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ John And they showed in the demos. I was like, look, let me take this phone app and they expand the phone app to be like twice as wide.
⏹️ ▶️ John I'm like, wow. I mean, like, I know some phones are wider than others, but really? Why would you ever make the simulator window
⏹️ ▶️ John twice as wide? And they show like it changing from a one column to a two column? Interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ John Again, not particularly, I mean, this is such a land of leaks. They used to have more of a lockdown in the days
⏹️ ▶️ John before, like, we're going to add, you know, we're going to make the iPhone 6 be wider or we're going to add some height to it in the iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John 5 or whatever. They had an easier time keeping secrets then. But yeah, this is just from people
⏹️ ▶️ John downloading the SDK and like searching for things. Finding fold state and angled degrees is
⏹️ ▶️ John really something in the SDKs. I mean, did they even lead those symbols to go out? So yeah, foldable iPhone coming.
⏹️ ▶️ John Stay tuned to Overtime for more on that because as the title of the Overtime segment owner, it says,
⏹️ ▶️ John the foldable iPhone takes shape, literally.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, and somebody pointed out that there was also a lot of talk about origami in the state of the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John demo app was
⏹️ ▶️ John was that? I mean, it was a message. It's just a messaging app. It's just a name. We picked it's just a name.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco For some reason, we're thinking about folding a lot. So
⏹️ ▶️ John we didn't say, no one said fold. Who said fold? They just said origami.