catatp.fm Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

611: RAM Christmas

The new Mac Mini, updated iMacs and MacBook Pros, putting things on bottoms, and some fun surprises.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Chapters

  1. Marco did Apple homework
  2. VOTE!
  3. ATP Store
  4. iMac update
  5. Sponsor: 1Password XAM
  6. USB-C input peripherals
  7. iMac, cont’d.
  8. Sponsor: Tiptop
  9. New Mac Mini
  10. Sponsor: Uncommon Goods
  11. MacBook Air 16 GB
  12. MacBook Pro update
  13. Ending theme
  14. Caved

Marco did Apple homework

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did my Apple homework. I finally watched Submerged, and I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did the hearing test with the AirPods Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I have not done the

⏹️ ▶️ John hearing test. Lucky you. I would love to do the hearing test, but I can’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because you don’t have the right

⏹️ ▶️ John AirPods. Oh, because you can’t use the in-ear ones. No, it’s not that I can’t use them. I would gladly

⏹️ ▶️ John borrow my wife’s in-ear ones and use them, but I can’t use hers either. I believe it is only

⏹️ ▶️ John AirPods Pro 2, which makes no sense to me. Yeah, I believe that’s correct.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can understand them saying maybe AirPods Pro only, although honestly, all those hearing test apps that I use worked fine

⏹️ ▶️ John with my open-air ones, but like, whatever, I get it. You want to be more accurate, seal the ear, fine, but AirPods Pro 1

⏹️ ▶️ John really can’t do the hearing test, Apple? Pretty crappy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m sure there’s a reason.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I’m sure there’s a reason as well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but here we are. No, but I don’t really care about that. So with respect, tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me all about Submerged. I don’t even care that much about your hearing test, I kind of do, but I really want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to know about Submerged.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My hearing test was fine, it’s very uninteresting. All right, so Submerged was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really fun. I’m glad that you convinced me that it was worth watching. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is, as a reminder, this is the quick immersive video that was made for Vision Pro. It’s like an original,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like 12 minutes long or something, it’s not very long at all, but it’s kind of like a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little mini play, basically. I went, a while back, I went

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in Manhattan, there was a, I think it’s still going, It’s a performance art kind of play

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called sleep no more, which is I don’t forgive me I don’t know anything about theater really But I believe it’s called immersive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco theater where like you’re just you as the audience members are just like walking around The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco act like the building in which the play is happening in all different rooms and so the actors are just walking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like through the audience doing their thing and the audience can just like Walk up right to the actors and just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like hover right behind them like a creep or like get in their way. So it’s kind of weird, because you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feel like you are in a play being performed. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only went there once. It seems like this is kind of a thing people do a lot, where the more experienced

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who have done this kind of thing before would really get uncomfortably close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the actors. And I’m standing off to the side, like I don’t want to get in the way, I don’t want to do anything wrong, I don’t want to get yelled

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at. And of course, nothing was wrong, everyone was fine. but like the people who were comfortable with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it were getting very, very close, like standing right behind someone. And there were parts of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Submerged that felt a lot like that immersive theater experience.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Parts of it that felt very much like, oh, I am way too close to this guy right now. I am

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John really in his personal space.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like this, I should not be here. This is kind of creepy. But ultimately

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it did feel a lot like watching an immersive theater performance. And so it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was very interesting from that point of view. And I think it convinced me more than ever,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you mentioned the theater angle when you first talked about it, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this convinced me more than ever that the right format for immersive video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is long shots, really paced and staged a lot like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a play with very little camera movement. Like you can occasionally change

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cameras, like change to a different shot completely, But the camera, in my opinion, should not move

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much at all during this. But it really did feel like I was in a play

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at first, especially like, you know, it starts out in like a scene, just like in a submarine, like in in like the bunks. And so you’re just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like watching these two guys talk to each other in the bunks of a submarine. And that felt so theater

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like to me. It was a great thing to see overall. I guess I had some technical issues. I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have motion sickness. I did have a lot of issues with, like, you know, the wrong thing being in focus. I do think a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more, you know, kind of infinite focus wide angle theater like staging is the best move

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that we know of so far for this. But ultimately, I hope we see more of it, you know, just like everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else in the vision pro. It was a nice sample of something that we might have more of someday. Who not like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was 12 minutes long. Okay, that’s great. You know, after almost a year, that’s okay. I can’t wait

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to see more if it ever comes sometime. Maybe please.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we’ll see. I mean, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a lot of fun. Um, I, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think it’s one of those things, like I’d said previously, whether or not you have any interest in submarine films, whether or not you have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any interest in short films, I think just as an exploration of a new

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or new to me anyway, kind of art, I thought it was really cool. And as with all things, vision

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pro it shows so much potential. We’ll see if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s ever really realized. And in a lot of ways it is realized. Because like this 15 or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 12, 15, 17 minute short film is realizing that potential, but I still was left wanting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more. I want either more of them or just a longer film of this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey note. And so I just, I don’t want to be down

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the Vision Pro because I think it is such an incredible piece of technology and so incredibly cool. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet, as we’ve said ad nauseum since February, you You know, we want more, give us more.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You have infinite money, Apple. You don’t have infinite time. You know, it takes time to make these things happen,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but you have infinite money. Do something, please, please do something. And this is a great

⏹️ ▶️ Casey example of it. So more, more please. I’ll take seconds and thirds and fourths. I’ll take more,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey please.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I know this does not fit their sensibilities, I’m sure. I’m sure Apple wants to do everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco original and custom for this. And as a result, we have almost nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What I would love is just take existing experiences and bring them to us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here. You know, similar to what the talk show live did at WBDC this year, where like they had a 3D

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stream of the talk show that was just like having a front row seat in the theater. It was a fixed camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and a thing was happening on stage in front of it. That was great. Is that the only thing this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco headset can do? No, of course not. But it does it and it does it really well. Like, make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deals. Give me a front row seat to great theater productions. Give me a front row seat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to concerts or sporting events or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sporting events would be so… I know that’s not your cup of tea and that’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Sporting events have unique challenges with live broadcast bandwidth and stuff. I get that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but concerts and theater productions don’t. Make a deal. Go pre-record a great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco performance of some theater and some concerts and just put it on the Vision Pro. Sell it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco People paid almost four grand for this thing. You could sell those things for 30 bucks and people will buy them. Just get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something on there. This show is like, just the pure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 3D experience of sitting in front of a performance can be really great and really immersive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and really compelling for this device. And we already produce events out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the world that if merely captured from a good perspective with 3D cameras

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and had nothing else done to them, would make great Vision Pro content. So I hope someone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in there, I hope they’re at least thinking of it or trying it or laying the groundwork for it. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the meantime, while we wait for 12 more minutes of original content to be made, we can get hours

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and hours of great stuff on there with some deals and some fairly simple production.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And to get ahead of feedback, there are some apps, some third-party apps in the Vision Pro. I don’t remember

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what, I want to say it’s like AXIS concerts or something like that. We have so much to talk about, I’ll probably forget to go back in the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco add it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But there are things that exist in the Vision Pro. I’ve heard a lot of people say that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the, I think it’s National Geographic or something like that app also offers maybe not immersive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey video, but certainly like IMAX sized video. So there are third party ways that you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do some of this stuff, but that doesn’t negate what you’re saying, Marco. And I agree wholeheartedly. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey again, I absolutely concur that theater or equivalent sorts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of things would be phenomenal. Like for those of us who never saw or really didn’t pay that much attention to Hamilton

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up until it was released, I think it was July 4th or thereabouts of 2020, I lost my mind. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you two were front row seats to me losing my mind about Hamilton five years after everyone else did. And you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bet I would pay 20, 30, 40 bucks to be able to watch that in an immersive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey video in the Vision Pro. And I would absolutely kill for that. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sporting events, all by word, that would be just incredible. And there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so many ways people are trying to make sporting events that aren’t happening literally in front of you more and more interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’ve had a handful of people send us links, again, I’ll forget to put in the show notes, but links to this thing that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of in the spirit of the Vegas sphere, but the idea is, is it makes you feel like you’re sitting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the stands of a sporting event and then what’s presented on the inside of the sphere is the sporting event.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know what I mean? So you’ve got all these people around you, like that concert, the fish concert you went to, um,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which makes you feel like you’re doing this as a collective group endeavor and yet you’re watching this not immersive,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but like it just all around you. So I guess quote unquote immersive, not literally immersive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or maybe vice versa, who knows? Anyways, you’ve got the idea. So you’ve got it all around you. Um, and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my understanding from those who have tried it is that it’s truly incredible. And so, yeah, again, I know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’re a broken record and I apologize for it, but, and the off chance that anyone with authority at Apple is listening

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more, please. It’s so incredible. Please give us more. We are so thirsty for more. And I know again,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sports is not really your thing, Marco, but like, it is worth the four minutes to watch the NBA

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all-star weekend thing. Cause I think these are each literally four minutes. There’s an NBA all-star thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s the Superbowl thing. Now granted, these are all coming out months after the fact, but still they’re so cool. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it shows so much potential. And I agree wholeheartedly that maybe streaming this as a non-starter, but,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh man, even if it was like a few hours delayed, I, I would really think about delaying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watching a sporting event so I could see it in immersive video rather than watching it live. It’s that freaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cool. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just don’t, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Like don’t wait until you can have like custom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything, multi shot, you know, fancy edited, like just a fixed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera in front of a great event that that alone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could be extremely compelling. And we are already producing in the world, lots of great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco theater and stage shows and concerts and like magic shows. Like there’s so many things that this could work for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco comedy shows. There’s so much out there that this could work for anything performed on a stage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically, like you can just put a camera in a really good spot and capture it and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sell that and it would be great and you know, but I it just it strikes me that Apple’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just waiting for like only the really high-end content content, but like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I please Apple I consider the consider the alternative here. give us more of regular stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because that could be really great.

VOTE!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Very quickly, we have a little bit of housekeeping to achieve and accomplish. First

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of all, if you are an American, we are recording just barely less than a week before Election

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Day. We’re not going to belabor this, hopefully, but I know I speak for all of us in saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey please go vote if you’re an American, and I’m probably speaking for all of us in saying, if you want our opinion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about it, we really endorse Kamala Harris and Tim Walz and generally speaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Democratic Party. The Republican Party seems to be intent on being

⏹️ ▶️ Casey racist and fascist and so on and so forth. You can see the recent Madison Square Garden rally, which was distasteful

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a trillion different levels. If that’s what you’re into, cool,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess, not really, but whatever. But if you want people who are looking to govern rather

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than just do what they need to do to make themselves even more rich, then I strongly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey encourage you to vote and specifically to vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz and Democrats across the board, generally speaking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey possible. There’s of course, you know, exceptions here and there, but generally speaking, a vote for them is what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we encourage. There are issues with all of the candidates. Naturally, we haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really spoken about what’s going on overseas in a long time, but that’s really deplorable, what’s going on in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Gaza, and there’s definitely some associations with the current administration, for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure, and that is gross, and I don’t want to minimize that, but ultimately

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no political candidate is perfect and for me anyway, and now I will speak only for myself,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me I would much rather have a Kamala Harris who has some questionable, very questionable,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thoughts about Gaza but seems to at least domestically want what’s best for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey damn near everyone and I will take that over a man who is mostly lost as marbles,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has demonstrated that he’s a monster as a president and his intent and his party are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey intent on taking away the rights of of all of the women in my life. It’s just gross top to bottom. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can’t endorse that. I can’t stand for it. I would love very much for my wife and my daughter to have control

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over their own bodies. So for me, that means Harrison Walls.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’ll be a little more firm about it. Casey was polite about it. There’s a couple of angles here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Number one is whether you go vote at all. So if you are eligible to vote in the United States.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The elections these days are won and lost mostly based on Democratic turnout. Republicans

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tend to turn out pretty consistently. And if you’re out there and you’re like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I want to vote for Trump, most likely you are going to go show up. It’s the people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who are on the left politically, typically, that have much more variable turnout

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rates. And elections tend to be decided based on how many liberal-leaning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people actually get out there and go vote for the Democratic candidate. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this system that we have sucks. The voting system we have is horrendous. The party

⏹️ ▶️ Marco system we have is horrendous. It sucks. Yes, it does. But it’s the system we have. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look, the handling of Israel and Gaza is messed up on so many levels. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know almost any American who fully agrees with everything we’ve done with,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with our handling of that. The thing is though, you only have one choice right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now. Your only choice is do I want Harris or Trump? That’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s the only choice you have. You don’t have at this point in the election, there is no option that says,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m going to send a message or I’m going to throw my vote away, or I’m going to support some third party candidate,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or I can’t, I just can’t support, you know, Harris because I object to it because you know what?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco First of all, if you’re concerned about the situation in Gaza, Trump is by all accounts, by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco his own words, by every possible analyst, by experts in the, in the subject by people over there,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way worse than Harris. So if you care at all about that situation, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about Ukraine, or about any of the wars that are currently going on in the world, universally, people who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what they’re talking about way more than us say Trump is far worse to handle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those situations than Harris. So you out there might be thinking,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t stomach what the Biden administration and probably Harris are going to choose to do over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. You might think that, and I feel you, but Trump will be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far worse. So if you don’t vote, odds are you are probably more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco liberal than average. If you don’t vote, what you’re saying is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m okay with Trump, because that’s what will happen. Like if liberals don’t turn out, what will happen is we’ll get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Trump. So I urge you, even though we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never have a perfect selection of candidates at this stage, that’s not what this vote is. In the future,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if we have a more diverse political party situation, if we have a different voting system besides first past the post

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or anything else. If we have other voting dynamics that allow us to make, you know, more nuanced choices,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then great. That’ll be a great time. And we would love to push for that change to happen. But right now, that’s not the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco option on the table. Right now, the option on the table is you either go vote for Harris or we get Trump.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if you care about any of those issues, I assure you Trump is worse. And I know we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have some conservative listeners left, and there’s not many of you because we’ve turned many of you away over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the years with comments like this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I, if you are planning on going to vote for Trump,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I urge you to consider that almost everyone who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually has worked with him or near him or governed with him or served in his cabinet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or commanded the military under his rule. Almost all of those people have since come out and said, for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco love of God, do not put him back in office. So whatever you think will happen, look at what did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen. What actually happened is he burned a lot of people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he made a lot of mistakes, a lot of people who have worked with him

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are now in jail for being criminals. He is also a convicted felon on many,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many counts, in addition to all of his other shortcomings. And he has specifically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said that he basically doesn’t care about some pretty fundamental things about America like democracy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, in my opinion, anything that undermines democracy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the most un-American thing you can possibly do. If you say you won’t trust the results of an election,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you say certain people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, if you say slogans like taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the country back, what that tells me is you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco believe in America, you believe in dictatorship. I am not the only person saying this. This is not hyperbole.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is like, look around at people who know what they’re talking about, because obviously we don’t, but look around at people who know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they’re talking about and they’re all saying the same thing. This is not vague. He’s not being subtle. He’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not hinting. He’s directly saying he does not want freedom and democracy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco He wants to be the dictator. And what we saw when he was in the office last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time is that there’s a lot of potential for that, that our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco system is more fragile than we think. So I strongly urge you, if you consider yourself an American patriot,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There is one candidate in this election who is promising and has demonstrated the willpower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and ability to undermine the fundamentals of our democracy. And there’s another

⏹️ ▶️ Marco candidate who’s pretty decent. I don’t care if Harris is not perfect for your politics.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Trump is the most anti-American choice you could possibly make. And in my opinion, I know this is going to piss off a lot of people.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think you can fly the American flag and call yourself an American patriot if you support a candidate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who wants to clearly undermine the fundamentals of our democracy. The Trumpists,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for you, this is tribal, this is religious, you don’t give a crap about anything except your team winning.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Go do whatever you’re going to do. The liberals out there, I urge you, everyone else, I urge you, go

⏹️ ▶️ Marco show up. If you show up and we have good voter turnout, we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will crush Trump. It’s not even going to be close. But it’s all about turnout.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We have to turn out. Even if Harris is not perfect for you, she’s better than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Trump. And that’s the only choice we have right now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now it’s a little bit late to register to vote. If you haven’t already, some states do have same-day

⏹️ ▶️ John registration, though. However, we will put links in the show notes if you’re wondering, I would love to vote. I’ve never done it. I have

⏹️ ▶️ John no idea how. I have no idea what to do. Vote.org, Iwillvote.com, vote.gov,

⏹️ ▶️ John all these links will be in the show notes. They will all help you find where you have to vote, what you have to do. Hopefully

⏹️ ▶️ John you either are already registered or have same day registration. And even if you are very knowledgeable in saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John none of this applies to me because I don’t live in a swing state and all that matters is people who live in a swing state. Show up

⏹️ ▶️ John and vote for your local elections, for your state elections. That stuff matters a huge amount, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John as a bulwark against a potential another Trump administration. You want to vote even

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re in a state that quote unquote doesn’t count. And by the way, what we traditionally think of as swing states,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, whatever, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John Arizona, right? For all we know, your state could become a swing state, either now

⏹️ ▶️ John or in the future. Don’t give up. If you’re in Texas and think there’s no point in me voting, vote, show up and vote. And

⏹️ ▶️ John again, even if you think it doesn’t matter for the presidential election, vote for all your local and state elections. And while you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John there, check the Harris checkbox. I think my co-hosts have explained

⏹️ ▶️ John why. It’s super duper important. please let us make the next time we record a podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John not be super sad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, for the love of God.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Again, going off of the swing state thing, like you might think it’s not that important for me to vote. My state always goes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco super red or super blue. Well, what if this is very close in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco popular vote? You know that many times the popular vote has gone to the Democratic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco candidate, but the Republican candidate has won. Hmm, that’s weird, especially recently, huh? That’s unusual.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe we should change the system. if it goes the other direction, if it’s even close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to going the other direction, if the Electoral College votes in a Democrat, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the popular vote is very slightly Republican or even close, and by the way,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many votes are going to be thrown away or switched because of all the crazy machinations that have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happened since the last election in like election boards and local government and stuff like that. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s close, they will take it. They will cheat. They will use their judges

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve installed over all the years. Like they will take it. It can’t be close. We have to win by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot for it to actually count. If it is at all close, they will steal it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I assure you. And the system is way more fragile than you think. It can’t be close.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco For us to win, we have to win by a lot or we won’t actually win. So even if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think your vote doesn’t matter, I assure you it does. Go out there, please, for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the love of God.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Please vote. If you have anyone in your life that you care about that is not a white

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guy, please, Kamala Harris, Tim Walz. Please, please, please, do it for us.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Even the white guys. I got news for you. Trump doesn’t care about you. That’s true, too. He doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give a shit about you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John He doesn’t care,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I assure you. Anyone who thinks Trump is working for them, look at what he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has actually said and done. People can promise all sorts of stuff when they are campaigning, But if you look at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they actually do, it’s usually a much smaller set of things that they’ve achieved and a smaller set of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people they’ve helped. Unless you are a very, very small group of very rich men,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he’s not doing anything for you. He doesn’t care about you. He cares about himself and making himself richer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and keeping himself maybe possibly out of jail. Nothing. He doesn’t care about you at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco He says bullshit to convince you. Trump is a paranoid narcissist. It’s very easy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for anyone who’s ever had a paranoid narcissist in their family or their life to identify these traits.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They are pretty good at convincing people on a shallow level to kind of be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on their team, to fight for them, because they make you feel really good in a certain way for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a time. Then they turn on you. And I assure you, if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you haven’t had somebody like this in your life, you’re very lucky. I unfortunately have. They can always bring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in new supporters. Then eventually they burn them and they have to bring in more.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s why they have to develop the skill to keep bringing in new supporters, because they burn

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the people who are close to them constantly. That’s why you see this guy burning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone close to him, and why he leaves a trail of imprisoned people and criminals

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and people behind him who he first holds close and then burns. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you think he’s working at all for you, you’re being duped, I’m sorry. He’s not working

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for you at all. And if you don’t want to believe me, that’s fine. You will eventually. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope that time comes sooner rather than later. And I’m sorry when that happens to you because it’s not a good feeling.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But he’s duping everyone who thinks he’s supporting them because he’s not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So get out there, everyone. Please, for the love of God, vote.

ATP Store

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We have something happier to talk about though, and that is that all of us, but really mostly and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey almost entirely John, have been doing a lot of work to bring back the ATP Holiday Store baby, it’s that time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So here we will do the annual reminder that you can go to atp.fm

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slash store. You can pull the car over after signaling, you can get to the side of the sidewalk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or do whatever you need to do to go to atp.fm slash store or visualize where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re going to. And imagine as you get to your desk at work about how you must go to ATP.fm

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slash store, because we have quite the array of holiday. Well, they’re not really holiday options.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They’re just options around the holidays. But here we are. We have quite the array of things to to hopefully

⏹️ ▶️ Casey entice your whimsy and fancy. John, would you mind taking us through it, please?

⏹️ ▶️ John I know it’s not even Halloween as we record this and you’d be like, what do you mean holiday store everything getting earlier and earlier?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is intentional. We are trying to continue to increase the chances that if you order something it

⏹️ ▶️ John will arrive in time for whatever holiday you celebrate. That’s why we’re starting so early. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, forgive us for jumping the gun a little bit on this, but it is indeed the Holiday Store.

⏹️ ▶️ John The sale ends on Sunday, November 17th, so that is your deadline, but yeah, just do

⏹️ ▶️ John it now. A reminder, if you are an ATP member, you have a special promo code on your

⏹️ ▶️ John member page, good for 15% off. So please use that. We’ve tried

⏹️ ▶️ John as in last year to make all if you are logged into ATP FM when you go to go to ATP FM store, we’ve tried

⏹️ ▶️ John to incorporate that discount code and all the links so you don’t have to even remember to put it in. But what if you’re not logged in? Or what

⏹️ ▶️ John if something goes wrong? Get your code, it’s on your member page, copy and paste it during the checkout process 15% off.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you want to become a member to get the discount, you can very easily get a discount big enough to more than account

⏹️ ▶️ John for the cost of your membership. ATP dot FM slash join what do we have for sale this year, this is the first

⏹️ ▶️ John holiday season where we actually have ATP gift memberships ready. We had them, we rolled them

⏹️ ▶️ John out a little while ago, but we missed the last holiday season. This is the holiday season when they are available.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can give someone else the gift of ATP membership. Maybe you know someone you think might like the show. Maybe you know someone who listens,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they don’t care enough about the show to pay for membership themselves. Give them a membership gift. You can buy them just one month. You can buy

⏹️ ▶️ John them a year. You can buy them seven months, unfortunately, by buying them seven individual one month

⏹️ ▶️ John memberships, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’ll work. It’ll work fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John Um, yeah, well, you know, the system’s not perfect, but the whole point is when you buy a membership

⏹️ ▶️ John gift for anybody, whether they’re already a member, have never been a member, doesn’t matter,

⏹️ ▶️ John it only just adds to their membership. Have you, if you’re already a member and someone buys you a gift membership, just

⏹️ ▶️ John redeem it immediately. We’ll just tack on time to the end of your membership. That’s how the system works. If you want someone

⏹️ ▶️ John to buy you a membership, right? Even if you’re already a member, but either way, if you want someone to buy you a membership,

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t want to pay for your next year membership, or you never wanted to be a member, but it’s a perfect gift idea for you because it’s something you wouldn’t buy for

⏹️ ▶️ John yourself, but it’s a gift idea for somebody else. There is a link that you can give them both on your member

⏹️ ▶️ John page and on the store page that will help them. It’s just atp.fm gift and then a query string that puts your email

⏹️ ▶️ John address and all it is is pre-filling a form with your email, but the email part is important. You can read the fact, you know, because

⏹️ ▶️ John the email address is how you get your membership. It’s assigned to your account based on your email address. Anyway, we have the fact

⏹️ ▶️ John linked. We have the, if you’re logged in, when you go to atp.fm store, you will see the link for someone buying you a gift

⏹️ ▶️ John membership. There you go, that’s gift memberships. This system has been exercised pretty well by all

⏹️ ▶️ John the people who have bought gift memberships in non-holiday season, but it is the perfect holiday gift. As

⏹️ ▶️ John for all the rest of the stuff, we have a lineup of M4 shirts. M4, M4 Pro, and M4 Max. We made

⏹️ ▶️ John these shirts before these chips were even announced. We were speculating that they would probably make an M4 Pro and

⏹️ ▶️ John M4 Max based on the rumors, and guess what they did? So, success! There are

⏹️ ▶️ John no chips on the back of these shirts, it’s just the logos on the front, partially because for two-thirds of them we had no idea what the chips

⏹️ ▶️ John would look like, but in general we’ve been avoiding the chips on the back to lower costs and because some people don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John them there. So there you go, you know what the shirts look like if you’ve seen the M1, 2, or 3 shirts. It’s M4, M4

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro, and M4 Max. There is no M4 Ultra shirt or anything like that because we don’t know what they’re going to make with that.

⏹️ ▶️ John If they make a really cool M4 Ultra or M4 Extreme, you can bet we’ll have shirts, but right now, only shirts for stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple has announced slash shipped. M4, M4 Pro, and M4 Max. In all these things, The new thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that we have is all these shirts are available in T-shirt, sweatshirt,

⏹️ ▶️ John tank top, long sleeve T-shirt. Like we’re just, we’re really trying to make

⏹️ ▶️ John as many varieties as possible. So if you’re like, it’s the winter, why do I want a T-shirt? Get a sweatshirt, get a long sleeve

⏹️ ▶️ John T-shirt. Many options. Of course, we have the M4 monochrome, which is a cheaper version that doesn’t have the rainbow

⏹️ ▶️ John stripes. It just has the all white M4 thing. Same deal. It’s variable in T-shirts and sweatshirts.

⏹️ ▶️ John yes, even tank tops even though it’s the winter. Then we have all our ATP logo merch. For the first time,

⏹️ ▶️ John we have added pullover hoodies. They are shown separately on the store page,

⏹️ ▶️ John as opposed to a zip hoodie. This is a pullover hoodie, no zipper, you have to pull it over yourself. With the rainbow ATP

⏹️ ▶️ John logo or the white ATP logo, those are actually just new styles available

⏹️ ▶️ John on those respective shirts, like the plain old ATP logo shirt is available in T-shirt, long sleeve, sweatshirt, and now pullover

⏹️ ▶️ John hoodie, and same for the other one, but we’ve showing them separately on the store page just so you know, so don’t get confused by that.

⏹️ ▶️ John ATP Pixels is back. We’ve only sold this shirt once and people seem to like it. It’s the ATP logo

⏹️ ▶️ John rendered in tiny pixels, which was extremely difficult to figure out how to print, but it seems like the last run of these shirts worked

⏹️ ▶️ John out well and people like them, so it’s back. And guess what? Now it’s available on sweatshirt as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John Again, another tricky printing problem, but I saw the proofs of how it came out with our test print and it seems to look

⏹️ ▶️ John as good as the t-shirts did, so ATP Pixels is back if you want that. And like I said, we’ve got our plain

⏹️ ▶️ John ATP logo stuff available. We’ve still got the zip hoodie. If you want the zip hoodie, which is amazing, that

⏹️ ▶️ John is still available with the embroidered rainbow ATP logo on it. The ATP polo is there with the new gray color.

⏹️ ▶️ John ATP mugs are back. It is the the cobalt one, the white mug with sort of cobalt blue logo on

⏹️ ▶️ John it. The mugs are the only item on this entire sale that are limited quantity because we had

⏹️ ▶️ John to pre buy them. So if you want a mug, order now because they may sell out and

⏹️ ▶️ John when they sell out, that’s And then finally, we have the ATP hat with the embroidered logo on it. That’s all our holiday

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. Yeah, so there you go. And again, remember those gift certificates. If people say, I never know

⏹️ ▶️ John what to buy you, even if you’re only vaguely interested in ATP membership, send me the link. Say, hey,

⏹️ ▶️ John buy me this thing. It’s a thing I wouldn’t buy for myself, but it’ll be cool to check out the umpteen member specials,

⏹️ ▶️ John all the overtime segments you missed, the bootleg, the ad-free version of the show, all that good stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, you can listen to us come to the near end of ATP of ATP on the most recent tier

⏹️ ▶️ Casey list. And so…

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey You’re

⏹️ ▶️ John wondering

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey what

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re talking about with that episode? There’s not just one tier list episode. There are many of them. So you could go back in time to the beginning and

⏹️ ▶️ John see how it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey is. When

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we all still liked each other. I kid, I kid. But no, seriously, please

⏹️ ▶️ Casey check out ATP.fm slash store again up until the very end of November

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 17th, New York time. So please go ahead and put in your orders. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know this for sure. This is just my gut. But I think, generally speaking, Cotton Bureau will ship in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey roughly the order they receive these things. So you should get all of these, if you’re an American

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway, you should get these comfortably before the Christmas holiday. However, if you wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be quick on the trigger, so to speak, you might get it a little before everyone else. You could be the first person

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tooting at us saying, hey, look at my new M4 shirt. And again, to reiterate, new pullover hoodies,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the backs of all the M4 shirts are blank, which I was very on board with the chip designs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the beginning, and now I think I’m on team blank back. And so this was both because we didn’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what to put on the back, and also because it worked out well. So, yeah, so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey please check it out, hp.fm.store.

iMac update

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, as per the rules, even though there wasn’t a single

⏹️ ▶️ Casey keynote, there was enough action going on over the last three days that we are skipping follow-up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have been told by the person in my ear that we need to skip follow-up, and so we are going to jump into the last

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three days of activity. For context, it is almost exactly noon our time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on Wednesday the 30th, and we’re going to get there in a second. The MacBook Pro announcement just happened

⏹️ ▶️ Casey less than an hour ago. So when we get to the MacBook Pro stuff, excuse me, we might be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little off on some of the details. Please give us grace because this all just happened. But what didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just happen or not to the same context is what happened on Monday. And on Monday, we got

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a new iMac, several new iMacs even. We’ve got a ton of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new iMacs in so far as there are seven vibrant colors and they really do look good from what I can tell.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s green, yellow, orange, pink, purple, blue, and silver, and we’ve got an M4, and this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was the first time the M4 was in a computer.

⏹️ ▶️ John Before I move on to the colors, if that list of colors sounds familiar to you, you may be thinking it’s exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John the same colors as the iMac was available in before. And I think the names are the same, but the actual

⏹️ ▶️ John colors are different. If you look at the new colors along with the old ones, you will see that

⏹️ ▶️ John generally what they’ve done is made the backs less dark, because it used to be there was like a really dark, saturated

⏹️ ▶️ John color on the back, and then a much paler color on the front. Now the backs are not as dark as

⏹️ ▶️ John they were. Some of the colors have shifted in tone. Like the green is much more green

⏹️ ▶️ John and less teal. The pink on the back no longer looks red. It looks pink on the back.

⏹️ ▶️ John In general, I think they’ve improved all the colors. I kind of like the old colors. Like they were sort of very dramatic and

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, very saturated versus very under saturated. Now they’re more evened out. So if you wanted

⏹️ ▶️ John a pink iMac and you’re like, but they sold a pink one, that pink one from the back totally looked red. Now

⏹️ ▶️ John this thing looks pink from all angles. green looks greenier, the yellow looks yellower. I think I endorse the

⏹️ ▶️ John new colors. Every single one of the colors I believe except for silver is new. So check them out the next time you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John in an Apple store.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. So yeah, so we’ve got all these new colors and we’ve got more information about the M4 and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think this is the first time it’s in a computer computer, not an iPad. So these all come

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the iMac with a 10 core CPU. There’s four performance cores and six efficiency

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cores. And so there’s various flavors of iMac or you could

⏹️ ▶️ Casey build them in various ways. There’s the two port iMac, which has an eight core

⏹️ ▶️ Casey CPU and an eight core GPU. It comes with 16 gigs of RAM.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this is the first time that I’m aware of that in Apple computer, or certainly first time in many,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey many years, that Apple computer starts with 16 gigs of RAM, which means what, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not. Yeah, look at the title of the graph. We’re always to qualify this if people say what about this model? This is this

⏹️ ▶️ John is a David Schaub’s graph of Apple consumer all-in-one base RAM. Very specific

⏹️ ▶️ John and you know the iMac the consumer all-in-one thing and that chart is the depressing chart that seems to

⏹️ ▶️ John go up and up and up until you get to around whatever that is uh 2012-ish

⏹️ ▶️ John when it stops going up forever and just stays flat until 2024. Now

⏹️ ▶️ John the iMac comes with 16 gigs base RAM and by the way that that name I’m not sure I’m not sure if it’s the official

⏹️ ▶️ John name, but it’s iMac, parentheses, M4, two ports. I love when they name them with ports

⏹️ ▶️ John on them. And it does in fact have two ports, as we’ll get to in a second. Your choices for RAM are 16,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is the base RAM, and 24. It is finally safe, entirely safe, to recommend every

⏹️ ▶️ John person in your life that it’s okay to get the base amount of RAM in an iMac. We will see this trend continue.

⏹️ ▶️ John Say it together, everyone. Thank you, Apple Intelligence. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco seriously. I was gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John say, finally. the only thing that has dragged Apple. It’s not the only, I mean, presumably they would have increased

⏹️ ▶️ John it eventually anyway. It’s not gonna be 2275 or whatever and they’re still shipping eight gigs

⏹️ ▶️ John of RAM. They would have increased it eventually, but I think it got a nudge from Apple Intelligence.

⏹️ ▶️ John So hallelujah, 16 gigs of RAM as base, even on the cheapest, the cheapest of cheap, the

⏹️ ▶️ John basest of basiest model iMac, 16 gigs of RAM.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s very good. I’m very, very happy about that. I know we all are.

⏹️ ▶️ John Time for some bad news. SSDs. Yes. Guess what they start at?

⏹️ ▶️ John Still $256. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, at least they’re so close to actual, you know, NVMe SSD pricing, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, yeah. The prices are insane and ridiculous. Sometimes being like, what, like six times or eight

⏹️ ▶️ John times the cost of this actual hardware, that all the margin is buried in the storage now. The RAM

⏹️ ▶️ John upgrades, by the way, are still insane, which is why it’s so important for 16 to be the base. Because you’re like, oh, what if

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not the base? I’ll just bump it up. You’ll bump it up for astronomically inflated prices, right? So now

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t have to do that anymore. You can get someone a 16 gig It’s the base model, right? You don’t have to pay the extra $200

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever SSDs now arguably SSDs is not as bad people can

⏹️ ▶️ John use cloud storage Not everybody needs a lot of space RAM is harder to get around because it’s kind of like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know The programs you run dictate the RAM but the amount of stuff you have dictates the SSD You can also attach

⏹️ ▶️ John external disks. There’s more workarounds. You can’t expand the RAM. You can’t expand the storage. I get it But

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the new thing. This is what happens with any kind of, if you’ve ever like optimized a program and you found a bottleneck,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you’re like, this is the slowest part of my program and I improved it by 10 times. Guess what? Now there’s a new bottleneck. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ John always the next thing that is the worst part of your program or your specs or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John And on the iMac, the worst thing about it has now moved from the base RAM to

⏹️ ▶️ John the base SSD. Previously, this was second place for the worst thing, but now it’s strong first place.

⏹️ ▶️ John 256 gigs base SSD. It’s absurd in this day and age. They should offer more.

⏹️ ▶️ John They don’t. Upgrading to 512 or one terabyte costs way too much money. Remember that

⏹️ ▶️ John you can attach external drives to this if you really need to. So it’s not as bad as the RAM situation, but it’s bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John But just FYI, your choices on the base model two port M4 are 256, 512 and one terabyte. And we continue on.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey A gigabit ethernet is a $30 option and it’s still in the power brick, right? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s why it’s an option because the port is not on the computer. that $30 option, you’re just getting like a power brick with the ethernet

⏹️ ▶️ John cord on it, which I still think is kind of interesting and clever. And it’s a side effect of them making the thing too thin. See

⏹️ ▶️ John our long ago discussion of the original M1. Or was it M1? Yeah, original M1 iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I believe so. So yeah, you can get Gigabit Ethernet for 30 bucks. There’s a new 12

⏹️ ▶️ Casey megapixel center stage camera with support for desk view. I don’t have in front of me what the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey old camera was, but apparently it was not that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey well, so

⏹️ ▶️ John desk view is the thing where it can, It’s like a wide, the whole point is it’s center stage camera saying it’s super wide angle,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the one in the Mac Studio. It being super wide angle, they have a way where it can show you what is on the desk

⏹️ ▶️ John in front of the iMac by taking the super wide angle and like de-warping it. So that’s cool.

⏹️ ▶️ John And center stage means it will follow you. 12 megapixel, I think that’s an increase

⏹️ ▶️ John in resolution. I don’t know if it’s exactly the same camera it’s in the Mac Studio. Is it better

⏹️ ▶️ John than the ones in the Mac Studio? Is it worse? I would assume it’s probably the same. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s confusing because everyone says the old camera was 1080, but this one is 12 megapixel, but they also say this one does 1080 video.

⏹️ ▶️ John So… Anyway, it’s it’s a very wide angle camera.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey When you say Mac Studio, you mean the studio display?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yes, sorry. Studio display. That is what

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sorry. All right. Uh, continuing along there are two Thunderbolt or USB 4 ports. Uh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this means the the 8-core iMac can support one external

⏹️ ▶️ Casey display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz. The 10-core iMac can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do up to two external displays with up to 6k resolution at 60 Hertz or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey One external display with up to 8k resolution at 60 Hertz

⏹️ ▶️ John and those core counts were the core counts for the GPU so here’s the case where if you pick a

⏹️ ▶️ John Binned or unbinned Soc you look at the number of cores in the GPU and that dictates

⏹️ ▶️ John what you can run as an external display So the binned one has an 8 core GPU the unbinned one has a 10 core GPU and the 10

⏹️ ▶️ John core GPU lets you run more better external displays.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then apparently Apple’s website briefly said that the X-Core could also support

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one external display with up to 8K resolution at 120Hz. And John has provided a YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ Casey link with a timestamp that we’ll put in the show notes.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the website was updated very shortly after that to say, no, just kidding, 60Hz.

⏹️ ▶️ John Whoopsie. So there’s, we’ll see some, a little bit more confusion about the display capabilities, but I

⏹️ ▶️ John believe that was an accidental over specification for this particular model.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we also get a Wi-Fi 6E and Bluetooth 5.3, and that is no different

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than the prior model, I don’t think.

⏹️ ▶️ John Even if it’s not different, Wi-Fi 6E is not the latest Wi-Fi standard. Wi-Fi 7 is.

⏹️ ▶️ John And there is a Bluetooth 5.4, I’m not sure if it’s out yet. But, you know, so this is the lowest end model.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s kind of disappointing to see them bumping a bunch of other stuff, but not going to Wi-Fi 7. Because especially

⏹️ ▶️ John for this these type of things where people don’t buy new computers that frequently if you’re getting like a base iMac or something but yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John Wi-Fi 6e and Bluetooth 5.3 those specs may sound familiar so even the SoC is massively updated,

⏹️ ▶️ John the wireless stuff is not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are brought to you this episode by 1Password Extended Access Management.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco on company owned devices and IT approved apps? Yeah, I didn’t think so. So

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP. Thank you so much to 1Password Extended Access Management for sponsoring our show.

USB-C input peripherals

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Possibly my favorite news of this week, and this is not hyperbole, is we finally have a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new USB-C powered keyboard and mouse and trackpad. And I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey deeply excited about this. I’m going to tell a story for the listeners. You two are not allowed to comment.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey About a week or two ago, I might have spilled a whole bunch of orange

⏹️ ▶️ Casey flavored water onto my existing keyboard and mouse. Excuse

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco me, no commentary. Where was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John this drink at the time? Excuse me,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not talking to you, I’m not talking to you, I’m talking to the listeners. Oh my god. And the worst part of that moment was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey realizing I’m going to need to go buy a new keyboard and I’m going to have to get a new lightning

⏹️ ▶️ Casey keyboard. This was again like two weeks ago. Thankfully, the water ingress

⏹️ ▶️ Casey protection on the keyboard, the big keyboard with the inverted T and Touch ID

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was excellent and so I’m still using it right now and it’s not sticky either, either, which is a double bonus. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah, I promised myself I wouldn’t tell you two that, so that’s why I’m just talking to the listeners. But yeah, now if I do it again,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then I can buy, and I’m thinking about doing it again, so I could buy a USB-C

⏹️ ▶️ Casey keyboard and mouse, which is excellent news. However, the internet was very perturbed. John, why was the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey internet perturbed?

⏹️ ▶️ John The turtle is still harpooned. We are referring to the Apple Magic Mouse,

⏹️ ▶️ John which has its charging port on the bottom, So you have to turn it over on its little hard turtle back and

⏹️ ▶️ John as it wobbles around to get the little wire in There to charge it and you can’t use it while it’s charging that remains true.

⏹️ ▶️ John Basically what they did with the peripherals Kind of like they just changed the lighting port to USB C, but not entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’ll get to that in a second But yeah, if you’re wondering if they redesigned the mouse to be different or to move the

⏹️ ▶️ John charging port They did not so I get used to that One of the things that I saw in the little specs is the

⏹️ ▶️ John way Apple refers to their cheaper keyboard that doesn’t have touch ID It does have a key

⏹️ ▶️ John where the touch ID thing is in the upper right hand corner But Apple calls it quote magic keyboard with lock

⏹️ ▶️ John key and I was like is that new what the hell is a lock key? But they just mean the key that’s in the upper right that has

⏹️ ▶️ John a lock icon on it that it presumably locks your computer That drives people You know a little bit batty because

⏹️ ▶️ John they accidentally hit it when they reach for the delete key and it locks their screen so you can Use like Caribbean or something to disable that key. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John the cheap keyboard still has no Touch ID in it. It just has a lock key We have

⏹️ ▶️ John some semi-breaking news that I didn’t have time to confirm, but it looks legit, from

⏹️ ▶️ John Jamie Krem- Creamexes? pointing out that there is a change to the keyboard that

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey spilled his drink into. He’s like, oh, I could just buy another one. Well, if you did buy another one, if you bought the Apple extended

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard with numeric keypad, whatever, the one with the inverted T arrow keys, apparently the

⏹️ ▶️ John new USB-C models put the little globe icon, the FN globe icon,

⏹️ ▶️ John in the lower left and that took about half the space that used to be used by the control key. So if

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re used to having the Apple Extended Keyboard and reaching all the way down to the lower left corner with your pinky to hit the very

⏹️ ▶️ John big double wide control key, guess what? It’s not there anymore. Now there’s a single wide control key and all

⏹️ ▶️ John the way in the corner is not the control key, it’s the globe thing. The theory is that that’s because the globe key

⏹️ ▶️ John is used for like the window tiling and everything like that. So that’s not great because I really like the double wide control

⏹️ ▶️ John key in the corner there, but I also like the Apple keyboard, So I will just be very careful and not spill drinks

⏹️ ▶️ John into mine Which is very unlikely to happen because my drink is actually not on a level such that water

⏹️ ▶️ John spilled could get to my keyboard because my water is below the level of my keyboards unless the water leaps out of my glass

⏹️ ▶️ John and Jumps up onto my keyboard. I don’t have that problem but Casey who seemingly cannot take

⏹️ ▶️ John the advice of his Olders and betters continues to put his drink in a place where it can spill onto his keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ John And so you’re you should be lucky that it still works because I assume you would also frown upon upon the globe

⏹️ ▶️ John key hogging the lower left corner?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In principle, yes. I think I certainly am not keen on that. And when I saw this fly by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just a few minutes before recording, I was like, wait, what? I think this is something I could probably get used

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to, but it’s certainly not something I’m seeking out. However, the window tiling

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing, I do really enjoy. And actually this is an aside, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I watched a video from a friend of the show, Quinn Nelson, and I will try to remember put this one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the show notes, but he was going through some like interesting Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey OS system tweaks that you can make or something along those lines. I forget exactly what the schtick of the video

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was. Here we go. Hidden pro tips and Mac OS Sequoia. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have, I’ve never been more excited to go into system preferences because one of the things, there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey were two keys to window tiling that Quinn brought to my attention, neither of which I knew were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey available. First of all, if you’re dragging a window around and I believe to hold the option key, then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey instead of just dragging it willy-nilly, it will try to slot it into one of those like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey buckets, like half the screen, quarter of the screen, et cetera, rather than just freeform dragging your window around, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was an incredible improvement in my quality of life. And then the other thing was, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been driving me bananas that there’s a gap in between the windows and around the outside of the windows

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you tile them. Like why? No, I don’t need, they don’t need to be cushioned. They’re fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They can touch each other. It’s not like cars where there’s no touching.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s like my favorite feature of this feature that I don’t use. Love the margins. I wish they were adjustable, but it’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t use this feature if it was not a big deal, but it’s good that the option is there because Casey, apparently you hate the margins.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I hate the margins. And so you can go somewhere in system preferences. I don’t recall exactly where it is, but again, we’ll put a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey link to the video in the show notes where you can see how do you turn off the margins, which I’ve done, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John We mentioned this on the very show that you are a co-host of. So it’s interesting that you had to wait for Quinn’s video to learn this.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, Jesus.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, before we leave the topic of the USB peripherals, because this has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got a lot of play, and I think a lot of the people who criticize, especially the Magic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mouse, don’t seem to be people who use the Magic Mouse. I use one as my regular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mouse, and I have used it for, jeez, 10 years? I mean, it’s been out for a long time, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I used to use the AA-powered version, which didn’t have the charging port problem. It had different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey problems. That’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know so anyway I’ve used this mouse for a long time as my only mouse. You know the only other mice I use in my life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are on gaming PCs because it’s a terrible gaming mouse. But otherwise you know it’s this is this is it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I really don’t like the charging port location being on the bottom.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s awful but it’s not that bad. Like there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are ways they can improve it like I wish the low battery notice would come on a little earlier. like some of the reviews have pointed out, like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think it comes on at something like less than 10% charge. And I think if it would come on at, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, 25% charge, that would be a lot better, or you know, something like that, you know, just a little,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, a little more aggressive on the reminder so that I don’t as easily forget to charge it. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think most of the people who choose not to use the Magic Mouse are choosing not to because they want a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger mouse, not because of the charging port location. I do think it would be better if it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a better location that would allow usage the mouse during it like the top center, which I think would be,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, the way where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John every other… The top center?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s your choice? Yeah, like on the front, you know, the front center, I mean.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, you don’t mean like the top, like the harpoon in the back of the turtle?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco No, I mean like where, I mean where every wired mouse… You mean where a regular mouse cord comes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out, yes. I mean where every wired mouse connects its wire.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John And by the way, the

⏹️ ▶️ John reason it doesn’t connect there is because it wouldn’t look as pretty. So this is absolutely a case of

⏹️ ▶️ John form over function.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it would change the height of the front. And so, and I’ve been thinking like- It wouldn’t change, you’d

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cut out a little notch for it.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’d be exactly the same

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco height.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I’ve been thinking like, if they actually did that, they would have to probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make it a two button, really a two button mouse. Like, because I think the way they would have to do that, it would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dramatically increase the front height to fit the port there. So it could be done. I mean, obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you look at every other mouse that does it. So obviously it could be done, but it would be a non-trivial

⏹️ ▶️ Marco change to the shape. And it would probably force the mouse to become something like what everyone actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco says they want, like a taller, because I think the whole thing would have to get taller.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s, you just need a USB-C for it on the front. You could not change the profile at all, except for

⏹️ ▶️ John one little like, like horizontal bump out for the USB-C. It would be ugly, and that’s why they didn’t do

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Well, right. I don’t think you’d have to change the profile at all, nor would you have to make it an actual split two button. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just that the one big smooth top button would now have a little flattened part

⏹️ ▶️ John in the front where the thing plugs in. And if you don’t want it to be raised at all, you’d cut a notch into the front of it, like a little like

⏹️ ▶️ John toe into it or whatever. Like, I don’t think the charging port, the reason people are snarking about

⏹️ ▶️ John it is because how it’s still the same place it was, which is not optimal. But here’s the thing, they didn’t redesign

⏹️ ▶️ John their peripherals, right? It’s just like with the AirPods Max or any of the other things. This is not a redesign.

⏹️ ▶️ John They just added USB-C, right? If they had totally redesigned their mouse and the

⏹️ ▶️ John new mouse, whatever the new mouse looked like, and the new mouse also had the charging port at the very bottom,

⏹️ ▶️ John then I would be very upset. But I’m not too upset about this because they didn’t redesign it. It’s the same mouse as it was before, they just changed

⏹️ ▶️ John the port, right? And you can be upset that they didn’t redesign it, but like, good luck, because they do not redesign

⏹️ ▶️ John their peripherals very often. It’s a long time between designs of these things. So yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not particularly upset about it because I don’t use that mouse, and it’s not a redesign, right? Presumably

⏹️ ▶️ John when they do a redesign, someday, who knows when at this point, when they do a redesign, then

⏹️ ▶️ John it will be time to say, what have they learned about the charging port location? And have they decided to change

⏹️ ▶️ John this from a very low profile mouse to a taller one or whatever? And I’m not sure everybody wants a taller one. Some people want

⏹️ ▶️ John a taller one. Some people like the low profile one. I don’t know what the ratio is or whatever, but that is one

⏹️ ▶️ John of the compromises of the low profile one they’ve always done. It is selecting beautiful form

⏹️ ▶️ John over this one aspect of function, which may or may not bother you at all. Most of the people, like you said, Marco, who don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John use it, it’s because of the shape of the mouse. That’s nothing to do with the charging port.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, anyway, so I’m disappointed in this update for sure. It will continue to be the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mouse that I use because honestly, frankly, what I am hooked on in this mouse is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the scrolling because you can swipe your finger on the top and it scrolls like Apple’s trackpads do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That to me is the reason I use it. I’m not choosing a stupid battery design. I’m not choosing a low shape.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m choosing that. And as far as I know, no other mice on the market are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to do that. So as long as that continues to be the case, I’m gonna keep using this mouse because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the scrolling to me is everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so, you know, and I’m fine with the rest of it, but yeah, it could have been made a lot better and they just didn’t do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And sometimes Apple does these kind of like, cynical updates almost where it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we so don’t care about this product, but we have some reason we need to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco update it that we’re going to do just the absolute bare minimum. You see also the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad mini update. we’re gonna do the absolute bare minimum here and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like, you know, it’s like the Unix touch command, just touch the product. Change as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little as possible. Like, new, we updated it, USB-C, that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you guys wanted, right? You know, crickets, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, that’s. Yeah, I don’t know if they’re like on a schedule for updating their peripherals or their monitors

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco for that matter. Oh, they’re definitely

⏹️ ▶️ John not. In practice, it’s just many, many, many, many years between and just like, it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John the time for them to update the peripherals, but they do wanna keep them from being embarrassingly out of

⏹️ ▶️ John date with lightning, so they just swap the port. When it comes time for them to make new peripherals

⏹️ ▶️ John at some point in the future, be careful what you wish for. Maybe they’ll have a totally new idea about what they wanna do,

⏹️ ▶️ John and the thing that you loved about it, like the touch scrolling, will be gone. And by the way, third parties could do touch scrolling

⏹️ ▶️ John just like Apple does. They just choose not to because the market for such a mouse, I guess manufacturers

⏹️ ▶️ John think it would be very small, because that’s not what people want. So they want 15 actual physical buttons all over the thing, They

⏹️ ▶️ John want gamer mice or what? I don’t you know, the whole peripheral market is is weird. But so there could be

⏹️ ▶️ John third parties that do a mouse that has a great touch surface on it. In fact, a better

⏹️ ▶️ John one, because if you look at the touch services inside the magic mouse, it’s not that sophisticated or high resolution. So they could even improve

⏹️ ▶️ John that. But apparently no one feels like doing it. So it’s the Apple mouse or nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ John And someday when they change it, who knows, maybe you’ll need to hoard these little sushi mice because the

⏹️ ▶️ John new ones will be not to your liking.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean given that they for years came with desktop Macs and Everyone has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a box of it in their closet somewhere who’s ever bought a desktop Mac and not wanted to use it I’ve got some totally unopened

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones my attic right like I’m sure there will never be a time where these are gonna be hard to Find if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want well, maybe the batteries

⏹️ ▶️ John will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be dead

⏹️ ▶️ John and won’t accept the charge

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, then those double-a battery ones would be really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John compelling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Gotta bring those back No I mean and And the thing is like, there is so much more they could have done

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this mouse to update it. Like for instance, maybe move to a better Bluetooth standard. You know, the modern Bluetooth standards are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even more efficient and faster and everything. Maybe add multi-device pairing. That

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be great. I would love multi-Mac pairing on the Magic Mouse. And they

⏹️ ▶️ John used to have that, by the way. I think the original Magic keyboards had multi-Mac pairing, but the modern ones do not,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is like a regression, which is not great. Haptic feedback in the mouse might be cool.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sample rate, resolution of the sensor, stuff that they haven’t really been aggressive in updating it. But it’s not. But like

⏹️ ▶️ John I said, it’s apparently not time for that mouse to be updated. Someday they’ll do it. But that day is not today.

⏹️ ▶️ John So whatever you get, this is not a redesign.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said, it was it was very tempting for me to buy a new trackpad and mouse because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the only they are the only thing left on my desk that I routinely use that uses lightning. And so I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have this dumb little lightning adapter that sits on top of my desk all the time just to charge up these keyboards. This

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this trackpad and mouse that I have here. And I’m like, I don’t want to spend $250 to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get rid of this one tiny thing off my desk, but God, is it tempting.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I had the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exact same thought.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you don’t have to worry about the weird globe key because you don’t use that keyboard, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, right. I had the exact same thought. Then I could get black ones, which at the time I bought these, there were no black

⏹️ ▶️ Casey externals that had Touch ID. And now I could. Very tempted.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Holidays are coming, y’all. Holidays are coming, I’m just saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John another thing, by the way, about the iMacs. Of course, all the iMacs, like they always have, with color match peripherals. I don’t know if

⏹️ ▶️ John the color match peripherals have changed color. I assume they have to match the new colors like the new green mouse does look

⏹️ ▶️ John different than the old green mouse, but you get a color match, color match, chords, color match, a mouse

⏹️ ▶️ John and keyboard with whatever color of iMac you pick. And you cannot buy

⏹️ ▶️ John those colored peripherals separately. So if you just have a random Mac and you’re like, I would love to have a pink keyboard, tough luck. Apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple will not sell you on which makes me wonder if your keyboard breaks and you like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, want to get a new one or like it has a failure and you want to get a new one under warranty, presumably Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John has the ability to get you a new pink keyboard for your pink iMac and they will do so, but it’s weird that they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John sell them. Maybe it’s just an inventory issue and it’d be tough to keep all those colors in stock, but be aware, you cannot buy

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the colorful ones of any of these things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, first of all, yeah, Apple does typically have a mechanism by which if you give them the serial

⏹️ ▶️ Marco number of the Mac and you say, I broke my keyboard, please sell me a new one, they will usually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sell you one through some kind, but you have to like go to the genius people in the store and have them work it out for you and stuff. But there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a mechanism for that usually. And second of all, as mentioned, a lot of people who buy these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computers that come with these peripherals don’t end up using those peripherals. There is a healthy volume, usually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on eBay, of any color you want of iMac keyboard, mouse, and trackpad. So if you ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want like, you know, the orange mouse, just go to eBay, you can usually find it for about list price.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s kind of weird though that they don’t have them as like, for example, just for mail order. Like just, I mean, maybe if it’s a weight,

⏹️ ▶️ John because stock, whatever, but I feel like they should just be something that you can either have some limited amount of stock

⏹️ ▶️ John on the shelf in an Apple store or just buy it through the Apple store online. But instead of going to eBay

⏹️ ▶️ John or having to either legitimately or pretend you have one of the color DIMACS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So one thing I’m a little sad about is they did not, and as you know, same story with the Harpoon

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Turtle, they didn’t change the design of the smaller Touch ID keyboard. I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the, what is it, 100 whatever key, big keyboard that has a numeric keypad on it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I did that expressly because I wanted the inverted T arrow buttons. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t really need the numeric keypad, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do use it since it’s here, but I would much prefer not to have it if I could, but I’m not going back to the weirdo,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, up down half height buttons on the little keyboard. And they didn’t redesign that either, and that bums

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me out. But here we are. Going back a half step, Marco, do you, I’m sure we’ve talked about this at some point

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the past. Hi, John. Marco, do you ever use a magic track pad

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at your desk? Like, is that just not your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John cup of tea? He

⏹️ ▶️ John just said he did like three minutes ago. Oh, I missed that,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I totally missed it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Not even in a previous episode. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fair enough.

iMac, cont’d.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wow, did we get sidetracked? I think that’s in no small part my fault. So coming back to the actual news.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I know, right? The iMac, I think we’ve covered everything except the starting price is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still

⏹️ ▶️ John Let me take this you tell the story yeah, right We’re going to the iMac with their weird parenthesized

⏹️ ▶️ John names. This is the iMac parentheses m4 comma four ports

⏹️ ▶️ John What is different when you get the one with four ports? Obviously it has four ports, we’ll get to that in a second, but if you get the

⏹️ ▶️ John four port one, you get a 10-core CPU and a 10-core

⏹️ ▶️ John GPU as opposed to the binned versions of them. And you get a RAM

⏹️ ▶️ John that goes up to 32 gigs, so you can get 16, 24, or 32, which is the thing you don’t get an option for on the

⏹️ ▶️ John two-port version. Your SSD still starts at 256, even though this is the fancy iMac,

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s 256, 512, 1 terabyte, And now you can get a 2 terabyte option. Gigabit internet is

⏹️ ▶️ John standard on the power brick thingy on the 4-port version There’s an option for a nanotexture

⏹️ ▶️ John glass I don’t know if this is the same nanotexture as the iPad or the same nanotexture as the XDR

⏹️ ▶️ John because those are two different Nanotexture processes. I don’t know which one this is, but it’s a $200 option and you get

⏹️ ▶️ John a polishing cloth You obviously get four ports for Thunderbolt 4 ports

⏹️ ▶️ John on the M3 and earlier versions there was two Thunderbolt and two USB. So like on the old

⏹️ ▶️ John iMacs with four ports, there was two Thunderbolt and two USB. Now all four ports

⏹️ ▶️ John are Thunderbolt. That’s because the M4 has four Thunderbolt controllers versus two in the M3 and

⏹️ ▶️ John earlier. And obviously all of these things have headphone jacks on the side because it doesn’t fit

⏹️ ▶️ John on the back because it’s too skinny. You get a magic keyboard with Touch ID. And now Casey

⏹️ ▶️ John seems to want to talk about pricing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Indeed. Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So the M4 with two ports is $1,300 and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey M4, the, did I say M2? My goodness. The iMac with two, with two ports, whatever I just said, the iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with two ports is $1,300. The iMac with four ports is $1,500. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the starting price. Obviously, as soon as you touch anything having to do with an option, the price balloons

⏹️ ▶️ John very rapidly and makes you really question what it is you’re doing. But thankfully you don’t have to touch that that RAM setting anymore, unless

⏹️ ▶️ John you really want it. Like, and we’ve gone through this too many times, so I don’t wanna go over it again, but like the prices for their upgrades,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s where all the margin is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, very much so. But the good news is there’s target, oh no, no, no, nevermind, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no target display mode, I was wrong.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, so this is, target display mode, for people who don’t remember, back in the day, Apple would give these

⏹️ ▶️ John all-in-one Macs with a big screen, these all-in-one iMacs with a big screen, they would say, hey, if you ever don’t wanna use

⏹️ ▶️ John this as a computer anymore, you can use it as a monitor, because it’s got a really big monitor that’s built into it. So if the

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac part of it becomes like old and just like too slow for you or whatever, but the monitor still looks

⏹️ ▶️ John as good as it did the day you bought it, now you can just buy like a Mac mini or something, connect

⏹️ ▶️ John it to your iMac and use the iMac as a monitor. Because sometimes, especially in the days of the 5K iMac, those monitors

⏹️ ▶️ John were really good. And Apple took away that feature years and years ago and everyone keeps waiting for it to come

⏹️ ▶️ John back on the all-in-ones. This is not that time. It’s getting

⏹️ ▶️ John more, it’s getting kind of like less excusable not to have this feature because

⏹️ ▶️ John these days, these Macs have Thunderbolt ports on the back of them. That is what is used to drive

⏹️ ▶️ John monitors. It’s not like the case where, oh, you couldn’t even run the 5K because it only works internally with the tool display controllers

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s no external bus. No, there’s external buses now that could drive this monitor. This is only a 24 inch monitor.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s got a Thunderbolt 4 port on the back of it. Like it’s really

⏹️ ▶️ John small and thin, it doesn’t take up a lot of room, it would be a perfect monitor. And the other angle is the environment.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s creating more e-waste. When an iMac gets old and it’s a little bit old and slow, or maybe you bought

⏹️ ▶️ John it with only eight gigs of RAM because you got the base model and now it’s kind of chugging and it can’t do Apple intelligence. Instead

⏹️ ▶️ John of like throwing it out or trying to give it away to someone who might want an old junky computer, you

⏹️ ▶️ John could keep using it, keep it in your house. It could prevent you from buying another display because hey, you’ve already got a

⏹️ ▶️ John really nice display and it would prevent you from throwing it out, reducing e-waste. Now in the grand scheme of things, so few iMacs

⏹️ ▶️ John are purchased that it probably doesn’t really matter, but the lack of target display mode is

⏹️ ▶️ John getting worse and not better as the iMac becomes more and more like a monitor,

⏹️ ▶️ John has even better potential ports to drive it, and as Apple’s environmental efforts get more and more

⏹️ ▶️ John urgent as 2030 approaches.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so speaking of environment, the new iMac with M4 is designed with the environment in mind with 100% recycled aluminum

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the stand, and 100% recycled gold plating, tin soldering, and copper in multiple printed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey circuit boards. iMac meets Apple’s high standards for energy efficiency and is free of mercury,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey brominated, flame retardants, and PVC. New this year, the packaging of iMac is entirely fiber-based, bringing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple closer to its goal to remove plastic from its packaging by 2025.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can pre-order it right now and could as of Monday. It ships sometime next week. I I think Friday,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know if that’s 100% confirmed, but I believe it’s Friday. I’m not sure why they didn’t say that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the videos and whatnot, but here we are.

⏹️ ▶️ John So the iMac, before we move on from the next thing, the iMac has always, the colored iMacs have always

⏹️ ▶️ John been really good computers. They remain really good computers. If you bought an M3 iMac the

⏹️ ▶️ John week before this one came out, as long as you got it with enough RAM, you’re fine. These, this is a good update.

⏹️ ▶️ John They updated, like when they update the lowest end in a product line, it’s hard to get

⏹️ ▶️ John too mad. like, well, it should have Wi-Fi 7 and has Wi-Fi 6E. And, you know, like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a low end product. You want it to be inexpensive. And honestly, nobody needs

⏹️ ▶️ John or cares about the particular Wi-Fi standard on just a basic iMac. The fact that they

⏹️ ▶️ John come with 16 gigs of RAM makes this potentially the best iMac update in years. The M4

⏹️ ▶️ John is, the M3 was already more than fast enough to do what most people are gonna do with iMac. The M4 is incredibly fast. Reminder of this

⏹️ ▶️ John chip came in the iPad. The single core performance of the M4 is ridiculously good.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s what matters for a lot of this sort of plain, boring single core, single task type operations

⏹️ ▶️ John that someone’s gonna do, like rendering web pages or just doing individual stuff that’s not like massively parallel.

⏹️ ▶️ John The colors are great. I think this is a really good iMac upgrade. And I know I complained about the SSD.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s just because that’s the new bottleneck. That is the thing we’ll be complaining about from now on. But everything else, I think they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John pretty much done an amazing job on. If you want to buy an all-in-one computer for someone

⏹️ ▶️ John in your life, show them a bunch of iMacs, let them pick the color, they’ll love it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s a great overall computer. And even though John mentioned that the spec

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up pricing is really rough, especially when you look at the storage pricing, dear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco God. But that being said, if you were the kind of person who would spec

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up the RAM before, it’s effectively a price drop now because the base has gone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from eight to 16. So if you were otherwise upgrading from 8 to 16, that was $200 before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So now it’s kind of like having a $200 price drop on your total configuration if you were gonna get anything more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than eight gigs of RAM. So, you know, overall, like, yeah, you know, you win some, you lose some with Apple. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wouldn’t expect the storage to be anywhere close to what it costs on the market because it never is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though I would expect it to get cheaper over time, Apple, but regardless,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we didn’t win anything on the storage this time, but we did make a pretty big gain on the RAM.

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New Mac Mini

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was very amused and impressed by Tuesday’s announcements. No sarcasm. I was, I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here for it. And Tuesday was the Mac mini and oh man, it’s mini. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey um, there’s a new, a newsroom post. There’s an announcement video, just like with the iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it, it got more mini for sure. So the Mac mini is now, what did they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say? Five inches by five inches, I believe. It is also taller than it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used to be, which is not a bad thing. And in fact, we’ll talk about why it’s a good thing. But it’s two inches high, five inches

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wide, five inches deep. The M2 Mac Mini, by comparison, was a little bit less than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an inch and a half high, so half an inch shorter. But it was seven and three quarters inches

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wide and deep. So that makes a difference of 0.59 inches

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the height dimension and 2.75 inches in the width and depth dimension.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it ends up being something like two-thirds the volume total of the old one, which is actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not as much minier than the rumors were suggesting. You know, people were expecting like an Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco TV size thing. It’s nowhere near that. It is not that much smaller,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it is noticeably smaller.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And speaking of the Apple TV, that is 1.3 inches high as compared to two and 3.66 inches

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wide and deep as compared to five. So the Apple TV is just a little bit less than three quarters of an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey inch squatter and about one and a third inches less wide and less deep.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The M4 Mac mini is one and a half pounds for the M4 or interestingly 1.6 pounds for the M4 Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The M2 Mac mini by comparison was 2.6 to 2.8 pounds. So difference of 1.1 to 1.2 pounds.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The Apple TV meanwhile is under half a pound no matter how you slice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. So about a third as heavy.

⏹️ ▶️ John So as for the case, like, yeah, the rumors of it being Apple TV, it’s pretty squarely between the Apple TV

⏹️ ▶️ John and the old Mac mini. And remember the old Mac mini, that case dimension has lasted 14 years, all the

⏹️ ▶️ John way back to ones that had an optical drive slid in it to know how old that case is. So it’s long in the tooth. But what they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John essentially made is, it is not a like Mac Apple TV. It

⏹️ ▶️ John is a very small Mac studio. Proportion wise, appearance wise, it looks like they took a Mac studio and hit it with

⏹️ ▶️ John a shrink ray. And now it is smaller. And so that is clearly like the proportions they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going for. And I think it looks good. It would have been cool if it came in like space black or something, and then it would have looked even

⏹️ ▶️ John more like an Apple TV. But thumbs up for the case design. Having not seen one in person,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they did something smart by, it enhances the family resemblance of the Mac family.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because before the Mac mini was kind of like the odd one out, it’s like, none of the other Macs look anything like this.

⏹️ ▶️ John But now it just looks like a small Mac studio, which is cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. The only thing I would say about the physical design of it is if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using it in server racks or server environments is as common as some people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might think or assume, I actually have no idea how common that is, but if it’s common to use them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as servers, this design probably is worse on a few fronts for that. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, for instance, the old design would fit into one rack unit, one U of height, and this one does not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, flat though, but everyone, anyone who racks the old Mac minis put them on their side though, didn’t they? Think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but yeah, so we’ll see anyway there You could get a 1u Mount that held like you know two of them next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to each other or something like that if you didn’t need that many of them So you know that there’s obviously you know custom things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for having a whole bunch of them But if you only have like one or two The old design is probably better for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new design also because they moved the power button To the back left

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bottom of it That’s going to make it fairly difficult to reach

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it’s mounted in pretty much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, you

⏹️ ▶️ John gotta be able to fit your finger in there and about that power button, right? So that’s that’s where it is. It is literally on the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ John in the corner. I Think I understand why they put it there and I

⏹️ ▶️ John think it has mostly to do with cost the Mac studio that this is

⏹️ ▶️ John the shrunken version of has one of those like Practical joke

⏹️ ▶️ John hidden power buttons that no one can ever find unless you already know where it is It’s on like the back left corner

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s so carefully precisely machined into the case with just a slight indent that is actually hard to

⏹️ ▶️ John find even by feel even when you know where it is. But that

⏹️ ▶️ John that buttons like that add cost. First of all, you got to punch a hole in the case. And I don’t know if this is in the notes,

⏹️ ▶️ John but like this new Mac Mini’s case is made by some like less expensive extruding process

⏹️ ▶️ John that saves aluminum for environmental reasons, right? take all these cases and

⏹️ ▶️ John incredibly precisely machine out a little thing for the power button and then incredibly precisely

⏹️ ▶️ John machine the aluminum power button that’s gonna go in that place that adds a lot of cost to what is supposed to be an

⏹️ ▶️ John expensive computer right so if you’re not going to do it like the Mac Studio your other choices okay it could

⏹️ ▶️ John just be on the front back or sides not unlike this that the one on the Mac Studio it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John unlike the curve or it’s like it’s not just like straight on circle it’s weird you could do it on the and

⏹️ ▶️ John make it a straight on circle, which would be a little bit less expensive, but you’re still machining a hole in the case, you’re still

⏹️ ▶️ John machining the aluminum button or whatever. Well, hold

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on though, that’s exactly how the old Mac Mini did it though.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, but this is cheaper. And why is it cheaper? Because on the bottom, it’s a hole in plastic, which is way cheaper, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a plastic button. I think it’s plastic. If that’s black aluminum, then it’s not for price reasons. But I assume

⏹️ ▶️ John the bottom is plastic. At the very least it’s straight on. And yeah, so that’s where they put the power button.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the power button on the Mac Studio is also kind of annoying, as someone who has to reach under my desk to get there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Power button on the front would be uglier, but a little bit more functional. But my guess is that for a

⏹️ ▶️ John computer this small, they’re saving costs. And also if you look at the, like, I mean, you’ll see it in the iFixit

⏹️ ▶️ John teardown, but even look at Apple’s like internals showing what is inside this case. It’s pretty tightly

⏹️ ▶️ John packed in there. You could get a power button pretty much on any surface if you wanted to, but the bottom is probably

⏹️ ▶️ John the most convenient. So as someone who never shuts down their computers, I don’t really care about this, but you’re right,

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco, that the rack, especially if they’re on their sides in the rack, or even if, especially if they’re on the, they’re not on their sides,

⏹️ ▶️ John getting to that power button requires you to either like pull the things out so you can get at them, or if they’re on their sides

⏹️ ▶️ John to leave a big enough gap for your finger to go in.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, or even if, you know, if it’s in like a cabinet somewhere, like in part of your TV console, or, you know, just anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you might have one of these things not on a desk, it’s gonna be really tough to get to that power button in a lot of those cases.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco By the way, it’s real time follow-up, thanks to ZM Knox in the chat. The old Mac mini, the power button was on a curved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surface, but it was that black plastic section of the back. So it was curved in plastic,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not in metal.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, like it’s a smaller computer. Like this is a compromise. And I kind of understand

⏹️ ▶️ John why, again, this is not, this is their cheapest standalone, like non-monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John desktop thing. So I give them a lot of pass on this. The airflow for this case,

⏹️ ▶️ John according to Apple’s little diagram, it’s all through the bottom, right? So there’s no vents on the front, on the back,

⏹️ ▶️ John on the top, on any place like that. It’s just that circular vent on the bottom. And there, according

⏹️ ▶️ John to Apple’s diagrams, it pulls cold air in from the front of the circle,

⏹️ ▶️ John swirls it around going across all the internals and pushes hot air out of the back of the circle.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you could still kind of use it in a rack on its side with the cold in the front and the hot in the back, but it’s weird that it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John a single circular thing. They do the same design they do with the Apple TV where it’s got the logic board.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then on top of the logic board is the analog circuit board for the power supply and everything. So the heat from that

⏹️ ▶️ John hopefully rises away from the logic board, right? But if you have it outside, I guess that doesn’t really

⏹️ ▶️ John help. Anyway, that’s their cooling design. I hope it’s quiet. The Apple TVs that had a fan

⏹️ ▶️ John were so quiet that I literally could not hear them with my old man ears. I believe the new Apple TV does

⏹️ ▶️ John not actually have a fan, which is why I thermal throttles all the time. This one does have a fan

⏹️ ▶️ John and hopefully it is quiet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do worry a little bit about this airflow design. I think it is very likely to be quiet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because there are no openings on the sides or top. So I think it’s very likely to be quite, what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I worry about is it’s thermal cooling capacity. Like I think it’s probably, it’s very likely not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have a huge amount of cooling capacity. And this I think is more likely to throttle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than a more open air design like the Mac Studio is.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, this is, considering what this comes with, which we’ll get to the processors in a second, this is very much like,

⏹️ ▶️ John take what’s in our lower end laptops, not our very highest end laptop, and put it in a case that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John way thicker than a laptop. You think that would give them enough room to do cooling that’s at least as good as

⏹️ ▶️ John a laptop. And I hope that’s what they achieved. Obviously, if they had decided, well, this is supposed to be a performance-oriented

⏹️ ▶️ John computer, they would just do what performance-oriented computers do, which is you put a bunch of holes in the front to take the air in and a bunch of

⏹️ ▶️ John holes in the back to push the hot air out and have everything go straight through the case. That is not what they did. That’s not what this

⏹️ ▶️ John computer is for. I really do hope, though, that it has at least

⏹️ ▶️ John as good cooling as the MacBook Pros that have these same chips in them because it’s so much thicker than them.

⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously those ones have more room to spread out stuff like the power supply. Well actually they don’t need to do

⏹️ ▶️ John that because it’s in a power brick. But they have more room to spread stuff out. So we’ll see how these work. But

⏹️ ▶️ John considering how they’ve done with the Apple TV and all the past Mac minis and the low power of the M

⏹️ ▶️ John series chips, I’m pretty optimistic that unless they do like a Mac Studio, M1 Mac Studio

⏹️ ▶️ John style fan that makes some obnoxious noise, that this one should be fine. I bet you could get it to thermal

⏹️ ▶️ John throttle, but probably I’m hoping no more than you could get the equivalent MacBook Pro’s thermal throttle.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So it has an M4, 10 core CPU, 10 core GPU,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John or no binned ones.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. No binned ones. Just the, that one. Or you can get, you can opt into the M4 Pro and I believe this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was the debut of the M4 Pro, uh, 273 gigabits per gigabits, not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bytes, right? Gigabytes. Gigabytes. My clarification. Yep. You’re right. No, you’re right. I messed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up. 273 gigabytes per second of memory bandwidth, which is 75% higher than the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey M3 Pro. My word, the M3 Pro had 150 gigabytes per second of memory bandwidth. That is bananas.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple will emphasize to you, if you mention this at all to them, that’s really good for AI, they will tell you.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco In

⏹️ ▶️ John general, the increasing memory bandwidth is good for, well, it’s good for everything, but like

⏹️ ▶️ John remember that these things use sort of unified memory for the GPU and the CPU. in the olden

⏹️ ▶️ John days at Apple where things were split, very often the video card would have tremendous bandwidth to its video

⏹️ ▶️ John memory, and then the CPU would have lower bandwidth and narrower buses to its main

⏹️ ▶️ John memory. But combining them both here means that there is a good reason to keep cranking

⏹️ ▶️ John up that memory bandwidth, even if only for the GPU stuff, but guess what? That’s the exact

⏹️ ▶️ John same bus that the CPU gets its memory as well. So this is a rising

⏹️ ▶️ John tide that erases all boats, and it is a big jump over the M3 Pro, which was no slouch. So thumbs

⏹️ ▶️ John up on this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah. So the CPU situation for the M4 Pro Mac mini,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s a 14 core CPU, and then I guess you can option a binned version.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is that right? That’s 12

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John core? You have to have

⏹️ ▶️ John core binned.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then there’s 10 performance cores on the 14 core CPU and four efficiency cores,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or, you know, again, there’s eight performance cores on the binned version, four efficiency cores.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The M3 Pro has 120, is that right? That’s a hundred, 12 core CPU. What is it? Goodbye,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey San Diego. It’s a 12 core CPU, six

⏹️ ▶️ Casey performance cores, six efficiency cores

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John on the M3.

⏹️ ▶️ John Remember the M3 Pro was a weird one. They had done something different. The 6-6 split between

⏹️ ▶️ John performance and efficiency was more efficiency cores. And it was kind of a strange arrangement. The M3 Pro was very

⏹️ ▶️ John different from, like the predecessors used to be, they would just take the max chip and like remove some stuff from it. but the M3

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro was totally its own chip and they went with six and six. And apparently for whatever reasons they decided

⏹️ ▶️ John that arrangement was not what they want to keep going with. So now the M4 Pro is 10

⏹️ ▶️ John and four, back to sort of very heavily biased towards performance. The

⏹️ ▶️ John six efficiency cores sacrificing some of those transistors for more efficiency cores and fewer performance

⏹️ ▶️ John cores, that’s not what they want to do with the M4 Pro. So the M4 Pro memory bandwidth is hugely increased

⏹️ ▶️ John and it is a 10 four arrangement instead of six six.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. And then the 20 core GPU or the 16 core for the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey binned version, that is up from 18 cores and 14 cores in the M3 Pro. Then 16 core neural engine, same as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the M3 Pro. So yeah, there’s a lot going on here. And this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot for a little baby computer. Yeah, they keep putting in these little spec

⏹️ ▶️ John things next to the CPU, and I can’t tell

⏹️ ▶️ John if they’re giving new information about like the width of the instruction decode or improve branch prediction or larger

⏹️ ▶️ John reorder buffers. I don’t know if that’s new information now. For the most part, it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John matter. As we saw, like I said, with the M4, when we were benchmarking that in the iPad, just incredible

⏹️ ▶️ John single core performance numbers. Presumably that same M4 in a Mac mini will

⏹️ ▶️ John do even better because I’m guessing it’s clocked higher and has better cooling on it. And the M4 Pro, we don’t have any

⏹️ ▶️ John benchmarks at this point, although probably they’re being published as we’re talking right now. This chip looks

⏹️ ▶️ John good. If you thought the M3 Pro was like, ah, it’s not as good as the M2 and

⏹️ ▶️ John M1 Pro, it’s just kind of like wimpy or whatever. I think they have reversed that, and now the M4 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John is really earning that pro suffix.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it really does jump up quite a bit. And I would even, you know, jumping ahead a little bit, if you look at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what the Max is that was released today, I think the Pro stands up pretty well against it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s substantially cheaper,

⏹️ ▶️ John which we’ll get to in a little bit, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. John, what’s the SSD situation?

⏹️ ▶️ John Grim, it’s grim. It’s the Mac mini, it’s their lowest

⏹️ ▶️ John end desktop. And it starts at 256 gig SSD, which you may think, well, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John people don’t need a lot of storage. Who cares what it starts at? You care because getting anything bigger costs

⏹️ ▶️ John so much money. It just costs so much. It’s ridiculous. So I really wish they had bumped the base,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they didn’t. Your choices are 256, 512, one terabyte, two terabyte, four terabyte and eight terabyte. And if you get an eight terabyte,

⏹️ ▶️ John you might as well like buy a new car with your Mac mini. It’s ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, the pricing of the SSD options has not changed. It is still like a $2,200 option to go eight terabytes on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of those computers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Which is not how much,

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, like just look at the one terabyte, like it’s just, it’s insane. The pricing is insane.

⏹️ ▶️ John So SSDs, bad situation. Hopefully you can get by with the base. Remember, unlike RAM, with

⏹️ ▶️ John the SSD, you do have the option to just buy an external SSD, connect it to a Thunderbolt port and expand

⏹️ ▶️ John your storage that way. It is slightly less convenient, but at least you have that option. So it’s good

⏹️ ▶️ John that the RAM situation is, Tada 16 base on all of the Mac minis, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John great. Thumbs up. Love it. Your choices are 16, 24, 32, 48 and 64.

⏹️ ▶️ John A wide range of options, all of which are priced insanely, except for the base 16, which should

⏹️ ▶️ John be enough for most uses for a Mac mini.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this the Mac mini has never been a good value when you spec it up, just like many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple computers. You know, the value gets eroded very quickly once you spec up anything. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s why the base model is so important. And again, just like the other computers that used to start at eight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that now start at 16, it’s almost like getting a $200 price drop if you were gonna upgrade to 16 anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, bravo for the 16, thumbs down on the storage. You know, we’ll get to that some other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Thank you, Apple Intelligence.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. The port situation on the front, like the Mac Studio, there are two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey USB-C ports. They are USB 3 or 10 gigabits per second.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s a headphone port and a power indicator light On the back, you’ve got power, Ethernet, HDMI, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three Thunderbolt ports. But what flavor of Thunderbolt, you ask? Well, I’m glad you did. On the M4

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mac mini, there are three Thunderbolt 4 ports, which are 40 gigabits per second,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey symmetrical send-receive. On the M4 Pro, we have the introduction in Apple World

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the Thunderbolt 5 port, which allows for 80, that’s twice as much, gigabits

⏹️ ▶️ Casey per second, symmetrical send-receive. Or you can optionally, or your devices can optionally ask for 120

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gigabits per second send out of the computer and 40 gigabits per second received back into

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the computer. John, why would one want to do this?

⏹️ ▶️ John To drive displays at insane resolutions at insane refresh rates, which gets back to the thing of like,

⏹️ ▶️ John all right, now we’ve got a Mac with Thunderbolt 5. What kind of display could this thing

⏹️ ▶️ John drive? And Apple, I think, is being conservative in its specs based

⏹️ ▶️ John on like what macOS supports, but 120 gigabits per second with display stream

⏹️ ▶️ John compression could drive a very huge single display at very high refresh rates. It’s awesome to see

⏹️ ▶️ John that, even if you can’t technically do it right now because macOS doesn’t support it, Thunderbolt 5 is amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Thunderbolt 1, 2, 3, 4, we’ve kind of been stuck at four gigabits per second, 3 to 4 didn’t change the speed at

⏹️ ▶️ John all, 5 doubles the speed, 5 more than doubles the speed because you can go asymmetrical

⏹️ ▶️ John for displays. Thunderbolt 5 is amazing. I love to see it on the Mac mini. It’s a reason

⏹️ ▶️ John to get the one with the M4 Pro in it. I know it’s weird that they tie

⏹️ ▶️ John the SoC to Thunderbolt 5. I think it actually has to do with the chip. Remember the M4 is great because it’s got four Thunderbolt

⏹️ ▶️ John controllers, but there are four Thunderbolt 4 controllers. The M4 Pro supports Thunderbolt 5,

⏹️ ▶️ John as you’ll see with the rest of the computers. A lot of the, with all the SoC things,

⏹️ ▶️ John what the computer has is very often dictated by what’s in the SoC. So M4

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro supports Thunderbolt 5. It’s great, it’s very future-proof compared to Thunderbolt 4,

⏹️ ▶️ John highly endorsed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah, that’s really cool. And you get gigabit ethernet. Oh, I’m skipping something, I’m sorry. If you wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a Thunderbolt 5 cable, how would you go about doing that, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John You can get it from Apple, and I am shocked to learn that it looks like it costs the same amount as the Thunderbolt 4 cables did. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John still $70, because they have chips in the connectors and everything, and it’s pretty thick and beefy looking. But yeah, you can get a

⏹️ ▶️ John one meter long Thunderbolt 5 cable for 70 bucks from Apple or Cheever or elsewhere. Thunderbolt five is awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ John I am very excited for it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s really not bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. I mean, it’s a lot of money, but given what’s in it, wasn’t there the, it was a myth busters that went through this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or, or, uh, no, it was just Adam Savage that went through this like a year ago and looked at, okay, why is the Apple cable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so expensive? And it turns out for good reason. Who knew?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah. And

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re active cables. Other people sell them as well, but active cable means there’s chips in the connectors that are doing stuff as opposed to just

⏹️ ▶️ John being a metal wires that connect to conductors.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And it’s not like it’s the same as a $5 USB cable, like any high, high data

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rate Thunderbolt cable that’s one meter long is going to be probably at least 30 to 40 bucks. So for the Apple version

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be 70 really is not that crazy for you know the Apple standard markups and quality differences.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Networking. Gigabit Ethernet is standard. You can get 10 gigabit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ethernet for a hundred bucks.

⏹️ ▶️ John Which is cool for like the mini, the really cheap desktop that you even have that option. And by the way when you get 10

⏹️ ▶️ John gig Ethernet you also get 2.55 like you get the standards that are in between there as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you you could make, you know, to mark a totally point for a huge amount of money, you can make

⏹️ ▶️ John an amazing, very small server M4 pro 10 gigabit ethernet. Assuming

⏹️ ▶️ John the cooling is good. If you spend the money on the huge amount of storage, this is a very small premium package

⏹️ ▶️ John for a very high price that has just incredible performance and connectivity. So despite

⏹️ ▶️ John the fact that the minis as always are just way more expensive than you, you think they should be, they are great little computers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, the rest of the networking though, same story as before, Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth 5.3.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Still rhymes.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, well. All right, display support. So you’ve got HDMI video output, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey supports one display with up to 8K resolution at 60 hertz or 4K resolution at 240 hertz. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey applicable to both the M4 and the M4 Pro. For the M4 and only the M4,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can do DisplayPort 1.4 over USB-C. That means up to three displays two displays

⏹️ ▶️ Casey left 6k resolution 60 Hertz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 5k resolution

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at 60 Hertz over Thunderbolt or 4k resolution at 60 Hertz

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over HDMI that didn’t sound right to me. Did I do that? Right? Does that is that right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John That’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John way they were these things It’s so like what they’re trying to say is like what combinations of displays you can use this copy paste it

⏹️ ▶️ John literally from Apple’s website And it’s so freaking confusing I wish they would just like have a diagram of like

⏹️ ▶️ John here are things that we can support But I think you read it right. It’s just a very confusing sentence The point is,

⏹️ ▶️ John with what you’re hearing here, it’s DisplayPort 1.4, which dictates a lot of what

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of output formats are supported. And as we noted before with the iMac where they said 120Hz at

⏹️ ▶️ John 8K, that stat is also not present here. You see stuff like the next one with two displays, they say

⏹️ ▶️ John you can do, in this giant sentence, one display with up to 5K resolution at 60Hz over

⏹️ ▶️ John Thunderbolt, and one display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at 240Hz over Thunderbolt or HDMI. Right,

⏹️ ▶️ John so you can get up to 240 Hertz on 4k But if you’re looking for 8k 120

⏹️ ▶️ John or 8k 240 or whatever that’s not happening on the m4 one. It’s display port 1.4 Only it’s Thunderbolt 4

⏹️ ▶️ John only That’s not what you’re getting with the m4. We’re just fine for the base model thing and again, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John great that the m4 supports this because the m4 if you look at the controller will also Eventually

⏹️ ▶️ John save us from the MacBook Air That only supports one external display the m4 solves that

⏹️ ▶️ John problem by having more display drivers and the Mac Mini shows that it’s capable of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, and then the M4 Pro has DisplayPort 2.1 instead of 1.4. That’s very

⏹️ ▶️ John important because if you go look at the Wikipedia page for DisplayPort 2.1, you say, what resolutions and refresh rates does DisplayPort 2.1

⏹️ ▶️ John support? It’s a big expansion in capability. Do these Macs support all the

⏹️ ▶️ John potential capabilities? It seems like the answer is no, but this is future-proofing. I think it’s just an OS issue

⏹️ ▶️ John at this point. You get a Mac with Thunderbolt 5 and it supports DisplayPort 2.1, presumably,

⏹️ ▶️ John if not today, then eventually you will have access to all of the resolutions and refresh

⏹️ ▶️ John rates that are supported by the hardware.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So, uh, that means up to three displays with up to 6k resolution at 60 Hertz

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over Thunderbolt or HDMI. You could also do up to two displays, one at six K

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at 60 Hertz over Thunderbolt and one with up to eight K resolution, 60 Hertz or 4k resolution

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at 240 Hertz over Thunderbolt or HDMI. It’s pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John cool. If only Apple sold some external monitors that have refresh at the higher 60 Hertz

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Imagine that and then tell me about dependencies John.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, this is you know, so what I Didn’t go through every possible configuration here But like

⏹️ ▶️ John when you go to Apple’s configurators, sometimes features are tied to particular models for a reason You can’t get Thunderbolt 5

⏹️ ▶️ John on an m4. It doesn’t support it It’s only in the m4 Pro so that makes sense, but there are other weird dependencies So if you get

⏹️ ▶️ John the M4 Mac mini, your maximum is 32 gigs of RAM and your maximum is two terabytes of

⏹️ ▶️ John SSD just because Apple says so, right? The RAM, maybe that’s a limitation based on the SoC on which

⏹️ ▶️ John ones they want to manufacture, but the SSD doesn’t make any sense. And the M4 Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine this, it starts at 24 gigabytes of RAM. Can you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco imagine? Can you

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine? How is this even happening? It starts at 20, the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco base RAM

⏹️ ▶️ John on the M4 Pro model is 24 gigs. It’s like, it’s just, it’s RAM Christmas around here. It’s ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ John Unfortunately, the only other choices are 48 and 64. They skip over 32. So if you had your heart set on 32 to try and save some money on the ridiculous RAM upgrades,

⏹️ ▶️ John tough luck, you got to go all the way up to 48 or 64. And it also starts at 512 gigs SSD. Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, obviously the M4 Pro Mac mini starts to get real expensive real fast, but base RAM is higher

⏹️ ▶️ John and base SSD is higher. Still small, but higher. So thumbs up to that. loving

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac mini base bumps. They didn’t have to do that. They could have started the M4 Pro at 16. They could have started

⏹️ ▶️ John at 256. I don’t know why they did this. It doesn’t make any sense to me. What’s going on over there at Apple, but

⏹️ ▶️ John thumbs up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. And a double thumbs up to environment stuff because this is the first carbon

⏹️ ▶️ Casey neutral Mac. 100% of the expected customer use, electricity use is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey matched with low carbon electricity. 100% of manufacturing electricity for the Mac mini is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sourced from renewable energy. 50% or more of the shipping is non-air.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, more than 50% of it is recycled content. Uh, of the stuff that’s 100% recycled,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s aluminum in the enclosure and the thermal, thermal module stage. There’s copper in the multiple PCBs,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey multiple thermal module components, AC inlet prongs, and multiple small parts. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a hundred percent recycled gold in the plating of all the Apple designed PCBs, there’s tin in the solder

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of multiple PCBs, rare earth elements in all magnets are all 100% recycled, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey zinc in the AC inlet prongs and multiple small parts. 80% recycled steel in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey multiple components, 20% or more recycled plastic in 25 components, 100% fiber-based packaging, 42% recycled content in the fiber

⏹️ ▶️ Casey packaging, and no established

⏹️ ▶️ Casey final assembly sites generate waste sent to a landfill as part of Apple’s Zero Waste program.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is extremely freaking cool, no sarcasm.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, really.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is what it takes to make a carbon neutral Mac. Like, they’ve been doing carbon neutral products, They’ve been moving up the scale. You’re doing

⏹️ ▶️ John a watch. How much energy is that gonna use over its life or whatever, cranking up to a Mac. It’s a small Mac to start, but this

⏹️ ▶️ John is the first carbon neutral Mac and they’ve had to do a lot to make that happen. And to review with

⏹️ ▶️ John their carbon neutral claims, what they’re saying is this thing will be carbon neutral over the expected

⏹️ ▶️ John lifetime of you using it. That means all the electricity it uses for all the time it’s plugged in your house,

⏹️ ▶️ John in addition to all the manufacturing and everything. Obviously they’re buying carbon offsets to do

⏹️ ▶️ John some of this and carbon offsets are not the greatest thing in the world, but you can look at the effort they’re putting in. They are trying,

⏹️ ▶️ John they are, and because they’ve got that 2030 goal of carbon neutrality and everything. And so here’s the first Mac and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac mini. So, you know, they continue to make progress, steady progress with every new product

⏹️ ▶️ Marco release. And this one notably doesn’t have a screen. I wonder like if they are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco including the power usage of the expected monitor situation. I can’t imagine they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John would. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because

⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t know what monitor you’re gonna use with it. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, it’s easy. It’s the easiest one to do. It doesn’t come with a screen. It doesn’t even come with a keyboard and a mouse. It’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac mini and a power plug.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you know, this is big progress. And you know, you’re right. Carbon offset credits are not amazing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that’s why Apple is also doing a lot of other stuff. Like I believe their carbon offset credits

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are only a small part of what they’re doing with making things carbon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey neutral.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like they’re actually going and like, you know, buying renewable energy resources and stuff like that. It’s very different. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, so overall, this is a great thing. They’re continuing to move this forward. And this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matters a lot and it’s hard. So I’m glad they’re doing it.

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MacBook Air 16 GB

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wednesday, which is today, and as we said a little while ago, it was like two, three, two hours ago, something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. We got a very brief, a little bit of information about the existing MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Airs, which was a bit unexpected, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it’s RAM Christmas,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s RAM Christmas, baby. You could see this writing on the wall. Once the week started, M2 and M3 MacBook Airs now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey started 16 gigs RAM. Heck yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s huge. When is the last time Apple has done this? Take an existing Macs that they’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ John selling and change literally anything about them ever, let alone saying, hey, we, but the M2

⏹️ ▶️ John and the M3, the two past models of MacBook Airs that they continue to sell, they went

⏹️ ▶️ John back and they said, you know what? Drop the eight gig model, make the 16 gig model. I think it’s the same

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco price

⏹️ ▶️ John as the eight gig model

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco once I didn’t get

⏹️ ▶️ John a chance to look.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, everything starts at the same prices. Again, it’s like a $200 price drop if you were gonna upgrade the RAM. It’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now you get the 16 gigs for the base price. You still get 256 storage, but you get the 16 gigs.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s great. And especially for a low-end

⏹️ ▶️ Marco product, a low-end high volume product like the MacBook Air, that is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco significant and that is very impactful. So I’m very happy to see that.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the Tim Cook way of like, let’s just keep selling a product until people don’t wanna buy it anymore. Like they’re still selling the M2 MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Air in case you didn’t know. But I think in this case, for a MacBook Air class machine, like

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m still using an M1 MacBook Air, right? The M2 MacBook Air is so

⏹️ ▶️ John good as a low-end laptop, like the M2 is not like holding it back because it’s too slow or it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John missing some features. Like it’s fine. The only thing that might be holding back an M2 is, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John you didn’t buy it with enough RAM and Apple Intelligence is choking your Mac or whatever. And so them bumping it and continuing to

⏹️ ▶️ John sell it is very Tim Cook, is like, we should keep selling that M2 one. It’s cheap for us to manufacture, we’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ John making it for years, people like it. The only thing that’s bad about it is the SSD storage

⏹️ ▶️ John and the RAM. And they fixed the RAM situation. A 16 gig M2 MacBook Air is an amazing

⏹️ ▶️ John machine for someone to take off to school or use for their work. You could do full fledged Xcode development on it. No

⏹️ ▶️ John problem. Like don’t think like, oh, you can’t do high end things. You can just a little bit slower, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it will do all of them. I can tell you like I, so my, my like, you know, lightweight travel laptop is an M2

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Air. And with 16 gigs of RAM, I have been able to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of, you know, overcast development, I can do it on there. I don’t, you know, when I’m at my big laptop, I’d rather

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use that because it’s faster. But if I’m like, you know, on a trip or something, I can and do use the M2 MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air, no problem. It is, you know, again, it’s slower, but it’s fast enough and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can get a lot of work done on it. And certainly if I was, you know, on a budget, trying to get started with iOS development,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no question I would say, get the MacBook Air. It’s great and you can totally do it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just can’t believe this. like the Apple intelligence, that must be the Apple intelligence RAM fairy just wandering through Apple with

⏹️ ▶️ John his magic wand saying, even Max, we’ve been selling for years, you get more RAM too, and

⏹️ ▶️ John no increase in price, everybody gets more RAM. And like, I know like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco on the iOS devices, it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John they need minimum of eight gigs of RAM. And you’re like, well, why can’t macOS use minimum of eight gigs of RAM? The RAM situation

⏹️ ▶️ John on macOS is very different than on iOS and iPadOS. There is no out of memory killer wandering

⏹️ ▶️ John around, hitting things with hammers and killing them off or whatever. There is a potentially aggressive

⏹️ ▶️ John use of swap, although they added that to, I believe, iPadOS in later releases. But

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway, the situation on the Macs is more of a free-for-all. Applications are

⏹️ ▶️ John free to use more RAM than they are allowed to use on those other more constrained platforms.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s why Macs probably need more than eight when an iPad only, quote unquote, needs

⏹️ ▶️ John eight. Obviously, all these systems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could use more. But yeah. Because you might have 19 windows on your screen on the Mac. And if those windows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are on your screen, the OS cannot just kill those apps in the background because they are there, you are using them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And also on the Mac, you have things like Chrome.

⏹️ ▶️ John Chrome has a new lower memory mode for its tab things. I shouldn’t be defending Chrome because I have 96 gigs

⏹️ ▶️ John of RAM and don’t think about RAM anymore. If you don’t have 96 gigs of RAM, maybe use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Safari. Yeah, and also, you know, and just, you know, things like electron apps, like desktop apps now use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much RAM. Slack, look at the RAM usage of Slack. Oh my God. Yeah. Slack, Discord, like all those,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the various, like, you know, electron or similar framework apps. They, your desktop apps use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way more RAM than you think they should. So yeah, yeah. Macs need a lot of RAM. And

⏹️ ▶️ John the OS is not going to, like to Marco’s point, the OS is not going to kill them off when they’re not visible, which is the thing that happens all the

⏹️ ▶️ John time on even on iPadOS. And iPadOS generally makes it so you can’t actually even see that many apps

⏹️ ▶️ John or that many windows at the same time. So there’s so much more constraints there, but yeah, that’s why they’re bumping even the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Airs. They should have bumped them years ago, but it’s just, it’s amazing they’re doing this. They should either stop selling them and introduce an

⏹️ ▶️ John M4 MacBook Air at 16 gigs, which is not out yet, spoiler alert, or do what they did, which

⏹️ ▶️ John is we’re gonna keep selling them because we love Tim Cook, but 16 gigs of RAM base everywhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The reason, whatever the reason, this is great. And yes, it is years overdue,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but at least it happened. So that

⏹️ ▶️ John is great. And they doubled it. They didn’t just do like, now you get, you know, nine, right, or 10. They

⏹️ ▶️ John could have done that incremental bump years ago, but if you’re gonna increase it now, 16 is the new floor. So enjoy

⏹️ ▶️ John the few brief years where the base RAM is going to be satisfactory on Apple’s computers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a wild, amazing time, y’all.

MacBook Pro update

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we’ve got MacBook Pros. That was the big announcement for today. And the final

⏹️ ▶️ Casey big announcement, we’ve got Space Black and Silver are the only colors because they’re professional

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John No Space Gray though. Space Gray was professional.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hmm, I guess so. RAM situation. So you’ve got three different tiers. You’ve got

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that like not really entirely a MacBook Pro, but I guess it’s a MacBook Pro, which is an M4,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no adjective, that can offer 16, 24, 32 gigs of RAM. The,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what I consider to be the base of the MacBook Pro is the M4 Pro models have 24, 36, 48, 64, and 128 as options. Starting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at 24, just like the Mac mini,

⏹️ ▶️ John M4 Pro starts at 24. That’s the base RAM is 24. What is going on? It’s amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a miracle.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Triple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco channel memory is what’s going on, but yes, go on. Yes, I know. And M4 Max, 36, 48, 64, or 128,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey baby. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing you would think they would always do is they charge you so much for the M4 Max models that can’t you just bump the

⏹️ ▶️ John base RAM? The base RAM is 36 on the M4 Max. Amazing, what

⏹️ ▶️ John a time to be alive.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And for storage, the M4 is a half a terabyte or one terabyte, the M4 Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John Are they allowed to do that? Are they allowed to sell a base model MacBook Pro with more than 256 gigs of SSD?

⏹️ ▶️ John Does Tim Cook know about this? What is happening?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Nobody knows. The base

⏹️ ▶️ John storage is 512 on an M4, which is still too little. the base should have been a terabyte like five years ago, but

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. It’s there. The numbers are going up after not going up for so long.

⏹️ ▶️ John The numbers are going up. Love it. I think maybe they had done that with the M3 as well, but I’m just excited about all these,

⏹️ ▶️ John the base numbers going up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it really is incredible. Uh, so for the M4 Pro half a terabyte, one terabyte, two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey terabytes, four terabytes, M4 Max, one, two, four, and eight. Those are your options.

⏹️ ▶️ John And four max starts at one terabyte. That’s where the M4 Max should start. It’s also where the M4 Pro should start,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s also where the M4 should start. But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco anyway, yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any Mac that includes Pro in the name should start at one terabyte and all the rest should start at 512.

⏹️ ▶️ John Especially because of how inexpensive one terabyte of the particular SSD chips they’re buying,

⏹️ ▶️ John how inexpensive that is. And like, how much cheaper is it than a 256 than a 512? It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re, they’re pinching so many pennies they should, but anyway, yeah. And again, why do we care about

⏹️ ▶️ John this? Because A, this is a portable computer and attaching an external drive is much more of a hassle than it is on an

⏹️ ▶️ John iMac or a Mac Mini that you have on a desk. And B, if you want any of these upgrades, they

⏹️ ▶️ John charge you fantasy prices that just, you know, eight times the real cost of them

⏹️ ▶️ John or six times or whatever it is. It’s ridiculous. So yeah, that’s where all the money goes with these models.

⏹️ ▶️ John But yeah, we’ve got all these great options and the RAM situation is looking better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, yep. It’s really incredible. The display has a nano texture display

⏹️ ▶️ Casey option. This is the first time in years that I’m aware of a MacBook Pro having a any sort

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of like anti-glare display. I definitely checked that tech box check. Wow,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco let me try that again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I definitely ticked that checkbox. There we go. Several years ago, many years

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago, probably almost 10 years ago now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I believe it’s been since the Retina came out because like the Retina never had an anti-glare

⏹️ ▶️ Marco option. The last matte screen option on the MacBook Pro was,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, like like 2014 ish, like, or no, 2011 ish, before the Retina’s came out.

⏹️ ▶️ John Although Apple would tell you that all their displays are anti-glare, but I know what you mean. Matte finish versus anti-glare is different.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s anti-glare coating that they can put on screens when they’re still glossy versus making

⏹️ ▶️ John the screens essentially textured. So it’s more of a matte finish.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and this is the first one to appear in an Apple laptop since then. Like, cause it, you know, it’s, it isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it was in the MacBook Air or anything like, no, it’s, it was not available in any Apple laptop for, you know, 13

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years or whatever. and now it’s back, which, you know, it makes sense because they just added it to the iPad Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as well when that was last updated a couple of months ago. So.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the iMac’s got it, so they would have to put it in here. And again, we don’t know if this is the same nanotexture

⏹️ ▶️ John process as the XDR or the one that’s on the iPad. We do know those are two different processes. I would assume they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John using the one on the iPad, but we’ll find out when someone gets these under the microscope and or gets an Apple person to answer their question.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, you know, since the XDR one costs $1,000. And it’s very delicate. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the MacBook Pro one costs $150. I’m guessing it’s the cheaper one on the

⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook Pro. Well, it’s a smaller screen. I mean, the iMac one is $200. So for a 24-inch screen and for a 32-inch screen, well, everything

⏹️ ▶️ John about the XDR is priced, True. You know, ridiculously. So, but yeah, I’m assuming the

⏹️ ▶️ John XDR one is more expensive and more fragile than the ones they would put on the consumer displays. I am personally glad

⏹️ ▶️ John that I don’t prefer nanotexture, so I never have to pay for this option. But for people who do, it’s great to have it as an option and

⏹️ ▶️ John a pretty reasonably priced option. You can’t get a RAM upgrade for those prices, I’ll tell you that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, the one thing I’m curious about is like, and maybe this will only be known over time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the challenges in MacBook screen management over time is trying to prevent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or clean off the keyboard imprint that you get on the screen. I’m a little wary, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco normally I would think this would be a great option to order for me because most of the time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m using my laptop closed in clamshell mode with a monitor at my desk. So I don’t care about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the color and sharpness loss when I’m at my desk most of the time, but then when I go out into the world with it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then I would love to have this option. So it seems like a no brainer, except I am a little concerned

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that maybe those keyboard imprints might get harder to clean off or become permanent more easily.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the keyboard imprints, you may be thinking to yourself, why does Apple still have this problem where the keyboard puts your greasy

⏹️ ▶️ John finger grease on the screen? Why don’t they just leave a gap between the key caps and the screen? And the answer is backpacks.

⏹️ ▶️ John They do leave a gap. Yes. But that is a huge expanse of very thin metal and screen. And when you

⏹️ ▶️ John put any kind of pressure on a laptop, it’s in the sandwich closing force, as Marco would say. Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ John You press the screen into the keyboard. If you want to avoid it, try not to squish your

⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook. That’s hard to do. It’s hard to put it in any kind of bag where it’s not squished at all. But that’s the problem they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John facing. There’s no unobtainium metal that they can put in a huge 16-inch expansive, extremely thin screen

⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t flex at all in the middle. I think I’m assuming

⏹️ ▶️ John that they’re using the more durable nanotexture from the iPad, which literally lets you swipe your fingers

⏹️ ▶️ John and a pencil across it. I’m assuming they’re using that and I think it won’t be that bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that might probably make sense. And by the way, there is a way to avoid that problem completely, which is use one of those pieces of cloth

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you stick on your keyboard when you close it up. That does avoid the problem, it’s just a pain in the butt, but that does avoid

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. But otherwise- You

⏹️ ▶️ John gotta make sure you put the cloth in the right direction, because if you turn it around, now you’re pushing the grease against the thing and it doesn’t let your thing close

⏹️ ▶️ John all the way. And it’s just another reason not to buy laptops.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I was worried, if there’s a little wrinkle in it, is that gonna be just enough stress to crack the screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John or close it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the risk profile is a little bit higher with those.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah, the tolerances on these computers are very tight. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. Now I’m very enthusiastic. I am not in the market. We’ll probably get to this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the end, but I’ll cut ahead. I’m not looking to buy any of these computers. I want a new MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pro, but I have an M3 Max MacBook Pro. There’s no reason for me to upgrade. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I also want a Mac mini as my, you know, Plex and channels workstation, but again, no need to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey upgrade. But if I were to upgrade, you bet your bottom, I would tick the nanotexture

⏹️ ▶️ Casey display option because I occasionally use my computer outdoors and I don’t do it often enough that it’s an egregious

⏹️ ▶️ Casey problem, but I would love to have an anti-glare screen. That sounds great. And speaking of outdoors, up to 1000 nits

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in SDR. So in standard, what’s the DR?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just had a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco brain damage. Standard range. Standard range, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you, thank you. And that’s up from what, 800 was the last

⏹️ ▶️ John one, right? Yeah, I mean, like, this is the thing about these displays. Like they’re, so they’re, it’s still HDR

⏹️ ▶️ John max of 1600 nits, which it has been for years, which is also what the XDR is, right? But the

⏹️ ▶️ John user interface is not in HDR. The user interface is in quote unquote SDR, standard dynamic range.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s just essentially a choice, a power saving and potentially image retention choice

⏹️ ▶️ John of when you’re not in HDR mode, how bright should you get? And they’ve slowly been cranking up

⏹️ ▶️ John the, how bright you’re allowed to put it in SDR, which obviously costs battery and obviously it has to

⏹️ ▶️ John be safe for the screen with image retention and stuff like that. But because they’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John also raising the high dynamic range ceiling, they’re narrowing the gap. So now there’s a 600 nit difference

⏹️ ▶️ John between SDR and quote unquote HDR, whereas before I think they started at like 500, then 600 and

⏹️ ▶️ John now it’s a thousand. But it’s important if you’re outdoors with a laptop and it’s bright sun and you can’t even see your

⏹️ ▶️ John screen, you just wanna lean on that brightness button and you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John be sacrificing battery life, but it’s worth it to be able to actually see your screen and work in it. And there’ve been utilities,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, third-party utilities for all these Macs that have 1,600-nit screens, where it’s like, do you want to run your Mac UI

⏹️ ▶️ John at 1,600 nits? You can! You know, Apple is not going that far, but built

⏹️ ▶️ John into the OS now, if you lean on that brightness button, you’ll get up to 1,000 nits.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I will say that I’ve, and I think we’ve talked about at least pieces of this story before, I’ve gotten

⏹️ ▶️ Casey into getting USB-C power cables that have like a little wattmeter on them. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need this information, and it’s the sort of thing that in one side of my mouth, I will tell you the people who have battery percentages

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on are monsters, and then in the other side of my mouth, I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John tell you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wanna know exactly how many watts are going into my devices. It’s very, very contradictory and silly, but here

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are. And I will say that there’s been a handful of times that I have been using

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my MacBook Pro while connected via one of those cables and not a MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cable, and I will turn the brightness way down, and I don’t remember numbers offhand, but I’ll watch the wattage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it’s using when it’s idle go to like, I don’t know, call it 10 watts. That might be twice what it is. It might be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a third what it is, but you know, just for the sake of discussion, it’ll go down to 12 or 10 watts. Then I’ll go bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bloop and bring the brightness all the way up and suddenly it’s like 50 watts or something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John like that. Like- And you’re only going

⏹️ ▶️ John over to 600 nits. Yeah, exactly. Well, whatever the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey M3 Max will do, but yeah, you get the idea. It’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stark and surprising difference that brightness makes on how much power

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the device is using. It’s very surprising. The camera is also way better. We

⏹️ ▶️ Casey were privately talking about this before we got on the air. We’re not entirely sure what the prior situation was. We didn’t have time to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go look it up. But they are saying that the new camera is 12 megapixel and it is center

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stage supported. I could have sworn that was the case already, but it seems not. But center stage is the thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where it’ll like pan and zoom and whatnot in order to get you and whoever else is in front of the camera in the frame.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so apparently that’s a whole lot better.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better? Well, I see I would I would issue caution on this because when you know what we saw

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with studio display and you know and the those what was the first product to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the center stage camera was one of the iPads right the one that turned

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey landscape. I believe that’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The problem is the way center stage works is it has an ultra-wide camera and then it basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crops in a region of it that it detects that you are in. So it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a crop from a wide-angle camera that you are seeing the output of and the problem with that is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you lose a ton of resolution when you do that because obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re cropping a wide-angle camera so you know so you what you get then is a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blurrier picture and typically you also get much more aggressive denoising in medium

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and low light so it ends up being a far worse picture quality so I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know until we until these things are actually in people’s hands and being reviewed I I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know that this is going to be a meaningful upgrade in camera quality. It might just be, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had to make the camera optics better just to give it enough headroom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to crop it down for center stage mode and have it not look really bad like those first center stage cameras did.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, Apple’s not good about making it clear when the camera hardware has improved.

⏹️ ▶️ John They just want to tell you what it has. And the way they phrase it is like 12 MP center

⏹️ ▶️ John stage, which is like code, you know, center stage, you know, is this branded thing with the wide angle and the cropping and 12

⏹️ ▶️ John megapixels tells you something, but you’re like, what was it 12 megapixels before? Is it different 12 megapixel

⏹️ ▶️ John sensor? Is the sensor bigger? Like they don’t really want to give you lots of technical details

⏹️ ▶️ John about the camera. So we’ll find out when people get these in their hands and start testing them and do a side-by-side with the previous

⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook Pro cameras. I don’t think they advertise desk view with this like they did

⏹️ ▶️ John with the iMac, the iMac

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco again. If you would. Like did they for this as well? I was wondering, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because then you got to figure like, what’s the angle of the screen going to be?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, like, like, is it showing your keyboard or it’s got a shooting past your keyboard? Because the iMac one, it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s like I wonder what the angle is, because you would want desk you to show the desk, not the trackpad.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. But so some will try and find out, I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. But yeah, basically, do not order this. Assuming the camera is better, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco order it and order it now. If you don’t care if the camera is better, because that first batch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of center stage cameras were terrible. So hopefully these are at least as good as the outgoing non

⏹️ ▶️ Marco center stage ones after the cropping has has occurred. But honestly, I I don’t I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think that’s I don’t think it’s super likely.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. ZMox in the chat says it was 1080p before. The problem with that is I think these cameras

⏹️ ▶️ John are also advertising is supporting 1080p video, right? Because the output, the cropped output, the cropped

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco output

⏹️ ▶️ John is 1080, right? But in the sensor is 12. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but we’re basically getting there is a sensor size shrink, right? Because you’re taking the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inner crop of what’s probably about the same size camera sensor. So that’s probably going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to mean more noise and more aggressive noise reduction, which was the biggest problem with that first batch of center stage cameras

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to begin with.

⏹️ ▶️ John Apparently, desk view is right at the top of the web page, which I hadn’t seen because again, these these computers came out just as we started

⏹️ ▶️ John recording. So forgive us for not being on top of everything, but we’re we went as fast as we could.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So 24 hours of battery life. I presume that’s just for the M4,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not the M4 Pro and M4 Max, but again, I’m not a hundred percent clear.

⏹️ ▶️ John That was just in their press release. I’m sure there’s on the tech spec page, you’ll see much more granular breakdowns, but the point

⏹️ ▶️ John is they’re advertising really good battery life. They’re not what they’re not doing is saying, Hey, we got all these

⏹️ ▶️ John new great M4 CPUs, but sorry, you’re going to have to sacrifice a ton of battery life. That is not what they’re saying at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re yeah. They’re actually quoting very similar battery life between the CPUs on the compare page. It’s like, you know, the, in the 14

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch that has the base M4, that’s 24 hours and then the M4 Pro version on that same computer is 22 hours.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So they’re they’re quoting you know 10% difference between the two. And and that might be all it is in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco practice I guess we’ll see. I mean as usual with with you know any kind of modern computer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco battery life claim it depends a lot on what you’re doing with it. So it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco super useful to try to compare absolute numbers it’s more of a relative thing. So yeah maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can assume maybe the the higher-end chips might get 10% less battery life overall doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more idle things. But once you crank it up, I’m sure they can burn through the battery way faster.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I always assume with Apple’s numbers in these modern years, just assume

⏹️ ▶️ John those numbers would be you using your computer and pretty much the most casual way, email, web

⏹️ ▶️ John browsing, and that’s it. No video conferencing, no compiling an Xcode, no, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John audio or video editing, right? The number is for just casual like office style.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can be in a word processor. You could be in a spreadsheet. You could be browsing the Web. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John what those numbers are kind of based on. So and the more hardware they put in, as you’ve talked about as many times, the

⏹️ ▶️ John more hardware they put in the SOC is the more cores, the more GPU things, the more anything that’s in there.

⏹️ ▶️ John When that stuff is sitting idle, it doesn’t take as much power. But when you crank all of those things

⏹️ ▶️ John up, it will destroy your battery. Right. And that’s what you wanted to do. You wanted to use the energy that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John there to get your work done faster. And what it means is that you can, you know, would you rather have fewer cores and

⏹️ ▶️ John it take longer to to compile your thing? Or would you rather have it use way more power

⏹️ ▶️ John for a shorter period of time? And in general, it’s better to use way more power for a shorter period of

⏹️ ▶️ John time because it gets your job done faster and be sometimes that actually saves more energy. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it’s again, don’t don’t assume if you buy this, you only have to charge your laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John once per day. that may be true on your average normal day, but if you

⏹️ ▶️ John have a very intensive day with lots of Zoom meetings, even that can really eat into that battery life. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John although I think maybe Zoom uses enough hardware acceleration that it’s not that bad. Maybe it’s actually just the electron app that Zoom is built on that

⏹️ ▶️ John I assume will eat all your battery life. But anyway, battery life still looks good. And these are, remember, these

⏹️ ▶️ John are not, we haven’t talked about it yet. We didn’t mention anything about it, but I’m assuming based on what I saw on the website, they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John change the case. It is not a redesigned case. It is not a thinner case. It is the same one the previous

⏹️ ▶️ John M3 and M2 and M1 MacBook Pros were in, as far as I can tell.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey As far as I know, that is correct. Connectivity, M4 gets Thunderbolt 4 and DisplayPort 1.4.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The M4 Pro and M4 Max gets Thunderbolt 5 and DisplayPort 2.1.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it still rhymes, Wi-Fi 6E and Bluetooth 5.3.

⏹️ ▶️ John And here’s where I say, okay, all the previous models, the iMac, the Mac mini, fine. the

⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook Pro, I would have liked to seen Wi-Fi 7 and Bluetooth. And I don’t know what dictates this,

⏹️ ▶️ John is it just a Broadcom chip? I don’t think this stuff is in the SOC. So it’s just like,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re just this generation, this round of revisions, the M4 ones, they’re just not, this is not

⏹️ ▶️ John the year that they go to Wi-Fi 7 everywhere, right? Even though Wi-Fi 7 has been out for a while. And the

⏹️ ▶️ John only machines I’m disappointed on are the MacBook Pros, especially the high-end MacBook Pros, because that’s where

⏹️ ▶️ John you’d want to see the stuff. Doesn’t matter for the other ones, here a little disappointment. But remember, Thunderbolt 4

⏹️ ▶️ John versus 5, if you use those ports, if you wanna drive a big display

⏹️ ▶️ John at high refresh rate, or you wanna have super fast storage or some kind of like rate array of SSDs

⏹️ ▶️ John or something, go to the M4 Pro, because they’re not holding it back from you. The M4 literally only

⏹️ ▶️ John supports Thunderbolt 4 and DisplayPort 1.4. So if you want Thunderbolt 5 and DisplayPort 2.1, M4

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro and M4 Max, it’s part of the SoC. You should definitely do it. It’s a big upgrade if you care about those things.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s talk about display support. For the M4 Max, there are up to four external

⏹️ ▶️ Casey displays, up to three displays with 6K resolution at 60 Hertz over Thunderbolt, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one external display with up to 4K resolution at 144 Hertz over HDMI. A

⏹️ ▶️ Casey secondary option you can choose is up to three external displays, two, up to two external displays with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 6K at 60 Hertz over Thunderbolt, and one with up to 8K at 60 Hertz, or one with 4K at 240 Hertz over HDMI.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They really need a chart. I know you said that a few minutes ago, they need to go on chart. And the M4 and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John M4 Pro, I didn’t put them in here

⏹️ ▶️ John because they’re just the same as you heard before. Like basically the external display to support is dictated

⏹️ ▶️ John by the SoC. So the only one you haven’t heard about before is the M4 Max. For the M4 and the M4 Pro, it’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John same as it was in the Mac mini, I believe.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. M4 Pro is a 14 core CPU or 12 core if you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey elect for the binned one, and 16 core GPU or 14 core in the binned one.

⏹️ ▶️ John And one thing with the binned ones is I’m assuming, Now obviously the binned ones are cheaper and you know they charge you

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot for the upgrade and we really have no basis for judging their margins

⏹️ ▶️ John on the upgrade of the cores except to say that they’re probably really expensive but who knows. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John my assumption is that one of the advantages of the binned

⏹️ ▶️ John ones, aside from being cheaper, is that I assume they also use less power

⏹️ ▶️ John at maximum because you can’t crank up 14 CPU because you literally only have 12 that work.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that may be something to consider to console you if you’re like, oh, do I want to pay the extra

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever hundred dollars to get the one with all the cores that work? Do you care about that?

⏹️ ▶️ John Are you, what difference is it gonna make in your life? Are you doing jobs that take an hour and now they’re gonna take 40 minutes instead?

⏹️ ▶️ John Are you doing jobs that take three minutes and now they’re gonna take three minutes and five seconds?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like get the cheaper one with fewer cores to save you from burning your battery if

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t care about having maximum power.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The M4 Max gets 546 gigabyte per second memory, which is compared to 410 gigabytes per second on the M3

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Max. This is actually the thing I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that makes me most jealous about these, but that’s neither here nor there.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not as big a jump in the M4 Pro over the M3 Pro. I didn’t know the percentages.

⏹️ ▶️ John Someone can do the math in the chat room, but it’s not a 75% jump, but it is a jump.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, 16 core CPU or 14 core binned, 12 performance cores.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re assuming 10 performance cores in the binned version, four efficiency cores and Apple claims a plus 20%

⏹️ ▶️ Casey multi-threaded performance over M3 Max.

⏹️ ▶️ John Seems like four efficiency cores is what Apple thinks is sufficient for just right. Because the efficiency

⏹️ ▶️ John cores are doing like the stuff that’s not very intensive, low priority stuff in the background. Just if

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s efficiency cores are actually fairly powerful these days And they gave you six of them at one

⏹️ ▶️ John point, but now with the with the pro and the max chips It’s for efficiency course for both of them

⏹️ ▶️ John And all they just keep doing is give you more and more of those power cores And yeah, so this one has 12 power

⏹️ ▶️ John cores 12 performance cores or 10 in the bend version That’s a lot of very powerful cores. This is a big chip

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, and then 40 core GPU or 32 core in the bend version and again about 20%

⏹️ ▶️ Casey GPU improvement performance improvement over the m3 max You can pre-order today.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They ship November 8th. Environment, 100% recycled aluminum in the enclosure, 100% recycled

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rare earth elements in all the magnets, 100% recycled tin, soldering, gold plating, and copper in multiple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey printed circuit boards. And the packaging for the 14-inch MacBook Pro is now entirely fiber-based,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey joining the 16-inch MacBook Pro in bringing Apple closer to its goal to remove plastic from its packaging by 2025.

⏹️ ▶️ John I hope it’s not anything we missed on these MacBook Pros. Again, they were released like as we started recording, So the timing wasn’t perfect

⏹️ ▶️ John for us. But overall,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s hard for me not to get distracted by the 16 gigs of RAM on the MacBook Air because selfishly, from my perspective,

⏹️ ▶️ John it makes my life so much easier when recommending a computer or someone to buy because the answer is always,

⏹️ ▶️ John they probably want a laptop. They should just get the MacBook Air. And now I don’t have to give them a speech about why it’s really important for

⏹️ ▶️ John them to spend $200 on another 8 gigs of RAM. I could just tell them to get the base, maybe check in with them about

⏹️ ▶️ John how much stuff they have. but again with cloud storage and everything, a lot of people can’t actually

⏹️ ▶️ John get by with 256, especially on a low end thing. And then the MacBook Pros, clean upgrade.

⏹️ ▶️ John They took the M3 ones, they put M4 in them, and guess what? The M4 SoCs,

⏹️ ▶️ John the M4 line is good. We heard the rumors months ago that

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple is going to put every one of its Macs on the M4, which may not sound exciting. Like, don’t they always

⏹️ ▶️ John do that? The answer is no, they don’t always do that. Sometimes Macs get left behind. The poor Mac Studio and Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro still have the M2 in them. The MacBook Air still has the M3 in them, but eventually there will come a time

⏹️ ▶️ John when the top end products that Apple sells in all of its categories will have M4 something in them.

⏹️ ▶️ John The plain M4 is an amazing chip, amazing single core performance. It made up for a lot of the problems

⏹️ ▶️ John of the M3, especially the dual display support and everything. M4 Pro takes a different

⏹️ ▶️ John approach than the M3 Pro, seems like a huge jump, great chip. And the M4 Max is exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John what you would think it would be. It is not the same as the M4 Pro As far as I know, we’ll look at the die shots to see if the pro and

⏹️ ▶️ John the max are just shrunken versions of each other. But anyway, the M4 Max has got more stuff pro starting

⏹️ ▶️ John at higher base RAM than the M4 and the Max starting at higher base RAM still is great.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is a great update to a bunch of Max that the rumors are they might be introducing new slim

⏹️ ▶️ John versions of these and there’ll be other potential. You know, it’s there’s uncertainty in the future of this one. They

⏹️ ▶️ John go to the M4, the M5 or the M6. Maybe they’ll redesign the cases. Maybe they’ll take different choices. Maybe they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John take away the SD card. But this is not that. This is the MacBook Pros that you’ve known and loved with what

⏹️ ▶️ John I think is the best, obviously it’s the best M series set of chips they’ve made. But I think the trade-offs

⏹️ ▶️ John from looking at how they’ve arranged these things, the trade-offs are great for these. And I really do think

⏹️ ▶️ John the fact that this is the year Thunderbolt 5 starts rolling out really makes the M4 Pro and M4 Max

⏹️ ▶️ John Max very attractive to people who care at all about

⏹️ ▶️ John external peripheral speed or future proofing for really high resolution, really high refresh rate monitors.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but overall, I love this lineup now. Like this is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco solid because as John said, you don’t have to try to steer people away from the 8GB base models anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The only thing I would strongly recommend pushing people to 512. Now that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only a $200 upgrade that I’m pushing for instead of a $400 upgrade that it used to be, maybe it’ll be a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit easier. Like to me, if you’re gonna do any kind of substantial

⏹️ ▶️ Marco power usage at all on one of these laptops. The one to get, I think is either

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the low end, get the MacBook Air, but they have like another tier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up that has 16, 512 for $1,300. Get that one. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, that’s the new budget model for people who care about computers. $1,300 MacBook Air with 512. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then honestly, if you want like, you know, the MacBook Pro features and experience,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, John’s right that if you care about things like display, future-proofing and everything, Thunderbolt 5 is a big deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco For most of us, that’s not usually the case. One of the best

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deals, typically, in Apple’s lineup, in terms of bang for the buck that you get, has historically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always been the base model of the biggest laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it used to be the old 15-inch MacBook Pro and PowerBook, now it’s the 16-inch MacBook Pro. And the base

⏹️ ▶️ Marco model 16-inch has, for $2,500, which is around where it has been for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quite some time. $2,500, you get the best screen, you get the best speakers, you get the best microphones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like all that other stuff that is the best in the MacBook Pro, you get all that. And then that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the M4 Pro with 24 gigs now and 512 gigs as the base. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a really great all-around computer. That can do pretty much everything most people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to do. Now, yes, if you spec it up, you can get more RAM, you can get more disk, whatever, you can always do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. This can you can go up to $7000 easily with this thing, but. If what you’re looking for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like best bang for the buck, I think it’s the air and the base model 16 inch.

⏹️ ▶️ John And this is also the last one or two years where we can not yell at the MacBook Air for not

⏹️ ▶️ John having an HDR screen. And that’s allowing for Apple being behind. It’s the thing that people,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think, underestimate about the pros is that that screen, the screen on the MacBook Pros has been great.

⏹️ ▶️ John Having HDR, I think, is just. It’s increasingly important

⏹️ ▶️ John in the Apple world because all their phones take HDR pictures, right? You really want to see them in

⏹️ ▶️ John full HDR on your screen. And the laptop screens are great. MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Air, who knows? Maybe the M4 MacBook Air will have an HDR screen. We’ll find out. But right now they don’t. And so people wonder, hey,

⏹️ ▶️ John should I get a really spec’d up MacBook Air or should I get the base model M4 MacBook Pro? What’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the difference? Do I care about the Pro? And I was like, the main thing that you will probably care about

⏹️ ▶️ John is the screen. you will notice the screen. When you look at your pictures on the screen, you will notice. Most of the time, people don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John notice anything about the screen. Like, oh, viewing angles, color saturation. No one is ever gonna notice that. But when they pull up

⏹️ ▶️ John a picture they took on their iPhone in HDR, it looks different in a

⏹️ ▶️ John way that people will notice. Even not even, not even just side by side. Just bring up the photos app and bring up an

⏹️ ▶️ John HDR picture and people go, whoa, and their eyes, they’ll, you know, like, it makes a difference. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John hope just like this year, we have all risen up to 16 gigs RAM base

⏹️ ▶️ John in the Apple world. Someday, the promised land where every

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac will have an HDR capable screen with 120

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Hertz refresh rate.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’re a long way from there, but we can get there. I believe, I need to give an I believe speech, Martin Luther

⏹️ ▶️ John King, I believe speech, that we can get every Apple device. I mean, the rumor is the iPhone 17 is gonna be 120 Hertz

⏹️ ▶️ John across the whole, like even the non-pro models and everything. So the phones will probably get there first the screens are smaller.

⏹️ ▶️ John But right now, XDR 60 hertz, studio display 60 hertz. All of the non MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Pros are in 60 hertz, like the iMac screen 60 hertz. No HDR. Like we need

⏹️ ▶️ John to get there. That’s that’s another mountain we have to climb. But for right now, the MacBook Pros have it. They’ve always

⏹️ ▶️ John had it. Those screens are great. That is a reason to consider even the basis of base model

⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook Pro if you care about HDR at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and also, when you go up to the ones that have the Pro or Mac chips, you also get more ports,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you get ports on both sides, you get the SD card, you get all these upgrades with the MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are just kind of better for convenience or connectivity or just quality of life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So yeah, if you can swing the MacBook Pro, it’s a great buy. And now the MacBook Air is also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great buy. Again, just get 512, please, for the love of God. If you think like, oh, I need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something for Xcode, you definitely want a lot of storage if you’re going to be using Xcode. Just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, do not get the 256. I don’t care. If you’re like a young person, you’re like, I wanna get into coding,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t need storage. I, you know, I have like, I stream all my music. I have my cloud photos. Trust me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Xcode eats disk space like crazy. You need the 512 if you’re doing any kind of Xcode work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at all. But yeah, these are great products all around. I’m very happy to see them.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and in terms of eating space, like I said, with a iMac or a Mac mini, you can just attach

⏹️ ▶️ John a very fast SSD to one of those Thunderbolt ports and give yourself more storage. It’s the advantage of having a desktop. With

⏹️ ▶️ John a laptop, you are not gonna wanna do that. You’re not gonna wanna do the Varko thing where you Velcro an SSD to the back. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can, but it’s very awkward. And when you run out of space, A, macOS gets

⏹️ ▶️ John very angry, and B, you will get very angry because you’ll feel like my computer is full. Do I need a new computer

⏹️ ▶️ John now? It’s not that easy to deal with that. What should I delete? Should I delete anything? Am

⏹️ ▶️ John I making a mistake by deleting precious memories of my children to fit within the stupid 256 gig SSD?

⏹️ ▶️ John Or like, should I delete some SDKs that I’m not using? Or did I just screw up my build? Or I shouldn’t have deleted that one? Or I need to

⏹️ ▶️ John redownload it? Like, when you fill your disk, it’s a bad situation on portable computers

⏹️ ▶️ John or devices on your phone or your laptop. And yeah, so maybe you can fit within 256.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, look into your heart, look at your actual computer, see how much storage you’re actually using, see what you actually can fit within.

⏹️ ▶️ John But this is the next bottleneck. So every time you remove a bottleneck, the next one just rises to the surface as the number

⏹️ ▶️ John one. Number one new bottleneck on base model Macs, 256 gig SSD. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but don’t let us poo poo this entire week of incredible releases. Like this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an incredible, and we’ve said this consistently for years, it’s an incredible time to be a fan of the Mac and it just keeps getting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey better and better. And I’m really, really pleased that I suffered through the dark

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ages of the late teens in order to reap the rewards here in the early 20s.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s been an incredible, phenomenal time to be a fan of the Mac. And I hope it continues. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean, Apple is, it’s not perfect, but darned if they’re not firing on almost every cylinder. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really, really good work this week.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, this is an above average year for upgrades, above average, easily above. And

⏹️ ▶️ John these were already great computers.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like their laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John were already really good. And this is an above, if you’re wondering, we were saying like, when is the right time to buy? When are they the

⏹️ ▶️ John good computers? These, again, we’re not gonna say right now because people haven’t tested them for all we know, they thermally throttle and blow

⏹️ ▶️ John up and catch fire or something, but they probably don’t. But wait, read, see the actual reviews of people who get these in

⏹️ ▶️ John their hands. Wait for Marco to buy one. I’ve been telling you about it, right? This isn’t a from looking

⏹️ ▶️ John at the specs. This is an above average year of updates in terms of how much better they are than the ones before

⏹️ ▶️ John and the ones before were already really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good. All right. Thank you to our sponsors this week. Tip top uncommon goods

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and one password extended access manager. And thank you to our members who support us directly. You can join

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us at ATV.fm slash join. One of the perks of ATV membership is overtime.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In addition to our cool merch discount, which we mentioned earlier, so you might want to join just for that, but you also get overtime.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is our bonus topic every week. This week, overtime is about the recent news

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the security research that’s been done with Apple’s private cloud compute that they are debuting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now. So there’s been some security research updates, and we’re going to talk about those in overtime. Thank you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much everybody for listening and we’ll talk to you next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they didn’t even mean to begin Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental John didn’t do any research, Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ John it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was accidental And you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes at atp.fm And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John mastodon, you can follow them at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s K-C-L-I-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Marco Armin S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse It’s accidental, they

⏹️ ▶️ John did it mean to Accidental, check

⏹️ ▶️ John podcast so long

Caved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I caved I got a Mac mini.

⏹️ ▶️ John You couldn’t make it through the recording. Jesus. No, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what the hell for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it yesterday. They’re adorable. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, I told you last week. Have you heard the show Casey? I told

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last week. I was buying one and why I’m buying it to replace my one ancient

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey my other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco recent but broken sinologies. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sorry. I blocked it from my memory because I was so sad at the at the anti-synology snark, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here we are. Now, yes, I’m glad. What did you get then?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got close to the base. The only thing I touched was I went to 512 and I went to the 10

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gig ethernet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you have 10 gig ethernet in the house or is that just future-proofing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have 10 gig wiring in the walls now and I’m starting, like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have some of the ports, I think, on my big router are 10 gig compatible, but I think only the WAN ports

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something. So I’m starting to lay the groundwork for that And I intend to keep this thing for a long time. And it was only like a hundred

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bucks or something, 150 bucks. So I’m like, all right, that’s I’ll upgrade that. And then I’ll, you know, that gives me a reason

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to start, you know, maybe look at upgrading, you know, my, my Thunderbolt dock that I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for my MacBook Pro. Maybe that would be easy to get a 10 gig ethernet situation going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It isn’t as far as I’m aware, like you can get 10 gig ethernet adapters, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to my knowledge, there are no like docking station style things that have 10 gig ethernet. My beloved

⏹️ ▶️ Casey CalDigit TS4 has two and a half gig as an example.

⏹️ ▶️ John Thunderbolt 5 docking stations probably will.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, that’s true. That’s a good point. Yeah, I should clarify, I would even just going to 2.5 would be a substantial

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upgrade from what I have now. And so, and since I’m planning on using this Mac mini basically as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a fancy NAS for the most part, I do want to start experimenting on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it with things like, you know, running background jobs for overcast. So if I wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to like, you know, start trying to transcribe podcasts in mass, Obviously, the way to do that correctly is in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a data center, but I can start

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John experimenting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it in my house and then,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you know, see. Or

⏹️ ▶️ John one Mac mini. Yeah, it’s either a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco data center full of M2 Ultras or

⏹️ ▶️ John one Mac mini and a closet. Where’s this one gonna be, by the way?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Directly under a waterfall

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John outside. Oh, it’s like me. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, or on Casey’s desk.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, either one. It’s equally dangerous.

⏹️ ▶️ John At least the waterfall’s not sticky.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Also

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fair, also fair. Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m excited for your purchase. What does it come on Friday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then, as far as you know?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, like next week.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah. I’m sorry, a week from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Friday.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, day one. The reason I asked where you were going to put it is because I wonder if you’d have an assessment of the fan noise. But if it’s in a closet,

⏹️ ▶️ John you probably won’t notice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s probably going to be in my garage. I have a- It’s not an outdoor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer. Well, the garage is- our new garage is semi-conditioned.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is fully insulated, and it has a split unit to keep it from reaching temperature extremes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in either direction. So it is semi conditioned and mostly fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m going to try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it there. We know about

⏹️ ▶️ John your kink, it’s fine, Mark. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco my god. She

⏹️ ▶️ John likes to put electronic equipment outdoors. It’s not outdoors.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Semi outdoors.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re just going to move right along. Why did you put a mini split in the garage? Like what were you trying to guard

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John against? So it would

⏹️ ▶️ John be semi conditioned. Well no, I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco understand that, but why? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so because it was, okay, the way Long Island works, everyone like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco knows a guy and when you ask a contractor like, hey, can we install a split in this room?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Sometimes what happens is he comes back and he’s like, hey, I got a unit, it’s no more money, but there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one that has two heads, do you want it? And I’m like, it’s no more money, really? Yeah, I got it, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ready to go right now. Okay, sure, we can put the second head in the garage. That’s what happened. There was a room

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next to the garage, a regular room that needed a split installed in it, so we put one there,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they were like, we can do it right here for no extra money, we’ll put one in the garage too, and I said, fine, whatever. They’re independently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco controlled. You can’t afford not to put one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John there. Right, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so I don’t like, you know, like in the summertime, we were running it in dehumidify mode, you know, like it’s just it’s kind of nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have certain options like that. So it’s fine. I don’t intend to ever use it aggressively, but it’s nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for extremes.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, now you need to keep your Mac mini comfortable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, exactly. No, I actually I’m in full support of this idea. So my parents in their

⏹️ ▶️ Casey house, which Marco briefly saw many years ago now, but They have a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three bay garage that the ceiling is like 20 feet in it or something like that. It’s an absurd amount

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of space. And when our kids were much littler, they wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have like an extended family thing. Like it was Christmas or Hanukkah or something. I forget exactly what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was specifically. But they realized that, well, this is going to be tough because the very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey young kids are going to wake up if they hear us all whooping and hollering and whatnot. it’s wintertime

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so we can’t exactly just go outside. MG

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Who put in a holler and whatnot might be the most Southern thing you’ve ever said. SB

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you never know what y’all get into. But anyways, one way or another,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what dad ended up doing was putting a single mini split in this very, very large garage.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s where he would set up, you know, like just folding tables and, you know, like chairs and whatnot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in there. And, you know, mom and dad, me and my brothers and family and whatnot would all chill in there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was great because we were far enough removed from the interior of the house that the hootenanny

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wasn’t hurt inside. And we could still live in there, not live,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but be in a conditioned space. So I’ve been wanting to find a reason to do it in my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey house, but we are never in the garage for any long duration of time. So I haven’t done it because there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need for it whatsoever. But I kind of want to just in principle.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, your cars are in there, right? You keep your cars cooler. So when you get in, I guess you can turn them on remotely

⏹️ ▶️ John and cool them off, but still, I just feel like cars, especially in the South, are places that are really hot, where

⏹️ ▶️ John just stuff, the interior of your car baking at over 100 degrees or 120 degrees is not great. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey no,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s not bad because it’s not in the sun. So the hood might be in the sun because we back into the garage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because that’s who we are. So the hood might be in the sun, but not the passenger

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John compartment.

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess it’s not in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey direct sunlight,

⏹️ ▶️ John but still, if it’s not a conditioned space, it’s an enclosed space in the summer, I can imagine that getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hot. I mean, they’re designed for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s not as bad as you think. It’s actually worse.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, I know, I know they’re designed for it. I just, I just feel bad for the car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s much worse than the winter. It’s well for the people.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I mean like, yeah, all those, all those glues and materials that are made to withstand 170 degrees without degrading too much.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve all seen old cars where those dashboards they put up a good fight, but you know, a decade

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey in they start

⏹️ ▶️ John to fall apart. And if you, and if you keep them, if you don’t, you know, expose them to

⏹️ ▶️ John extremes of temperature, they will be nicer for longer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is very true, but no, it’s not nearly as bad as you think around where we are anyway. The worst part,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least for people anyway, is during the winter because it will still be properly cold out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there in the mornings. And so Aaron’s car, I can run

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on electricity if it’s plugged into the house. It’ll warm itself up over the span of a half an hour if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I want it to, or I can actually start the gasoline engine as long as the garage door is open and warm

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it up that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John way. Is this

⏹️ ▶️ John the garage where your water heater is? Yes. So you’re worried it’s getting so cold in there, it seems like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s probably not getting that cold.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s, no, I mean compared to what you two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John are used to. So your water heater

⏹️ ▶️ John is in there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Compared to what you two are used to, it’s not that bad,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco but. Well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually, so I have a heat pump hybrid water heater now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Oh, that’s interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So what it does is it steals heat from the garage to heat the water, which means it air conditions the garage.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I actually have to be careful, you know, whatever choices I make with the split unit that I’m not basically just undoing my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco energy savings. That’s funny.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s wild. But yeah, so I can run Aaron’s car

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if it’s plugged in for, you know, like 20-30 minutes and warm it up. However, you and I suffer from the same

⏹️ ▶️ Casey problem with our cars insofar as if I were to turn on my car remotely, it would drive itself

⏹️ ▶️ Casey through the front of the garage. So that’s not a possibility. Unless you don’t park your cars in gear, John,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in which case we have a whole new world of things to discuss.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t park my car in the garage is what the problem

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is. Fair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey You got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you guys need EVs like this. This totally solves this problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John Car was not in gear. would be rolling into the street is what I would be doing.